ABOUT HEATHER. Heather's practice consists of helping her clients develop skills and awareness, witness, and breath to increase authentic core energy. As the individual's core energy becomes related to the work, the tissue and the consciousness are organized around the highest intelligence in the body, a transformation which extends far into their lives. The Polarity Process is comprehensive, addressing the interdependence between mental, emotional, physical, spiritual, & environmental dimensions of health & disease. At the deepest level,  Polarity Therapy provides the space for the system to find its inherent wisdom for healing and evolution. Heather is a registered polarity practitioner with the American Polarity Association and has dedicated over 35 years to the exploration of a natural and energy-based approach to health she has maintained a private practice on martha's Vineyard since 1985 Heather is co-founder and director of National Therapeutic Center, a nonprofit educational organization founded in 1995.


ABOUT SARA. Sara Sophia Eisenman is a writer, energy healer, Berkeley-educated neuroscientist, and a devoted wife and mother of two children. She is a powerful advocate for women embracing their natural ageless beauty, and serves to reintegrate the feminine aspect of the divine into the fabric of the collective. Sara holds a Bachelor’s degree in Cognitive Neuroscience from UC Berkeley, graduating at the very top of her class and earning numerous accolades for her unique work. (Read more about Sara’s time at Berkeley here.) She also has a Master’s degree from UCLA in culture and performance. Sara’s graduate work focused on dance and ceremony as a means of transmitting consciousness and accessing/healing deep trauma in the body. To further ground her healing pursuits, Sara trained in Reiki and shamanism for many years, becoming a Reiki master and noted teacher. Sara currently offers one on one healing energy sessions and consulting, as well as deep shamanic work in partnership with her husband Hanan Eisenman. Schedule a session with her on her website For more about Sara visit her website or connect with her on Facebook.

Heather: Oh, okay.

SDW: Okay, alright.

Heather: The call is being recorded.  Alright, yeah.

SDW:  It’s official.  Call 10.  Coven call 10 and here we go, it’s, god what day is it?  It’s September 8 2015.

Heather: Yup.

SDW: And I’m in-----and my next two callers, my first, my first speaker is in Martha’s Vineyard and my second speaker’s in San Diego and we are all over the world and let’s just take a moment to center. Let’s close our eyes.  And take a big, clearing, calming breath that we’ll talk about tonight and just maybe settle into your bones and then when you take a breath, breathe in through the nose up along the spine.  Fill the lungs, fill the crown, open the crown and exhale.  Two more times like that, up along the spine through the nerves.  Filling the lungs, opening the crown.  Exhale.  The third way just how you want to take a breath, inhale just so deep, so deep.  And just maybe exhale your day.  Coming into center, coming into relaxation and receiving for tonight and asking the energies of Mother Earth and the direction of the North to be with us and stabilize and hold us tonight, sustain us through this call.  Welcome Mother Earth and the energies of the North.  And then the energies of the East, the direction of East, the energies of air, our breath, our inspiration, the winds of change, we welcome you in tonight, may we be inspired through this work, may what comes up and arises be of service in this work.  And calling in the direction of the South.  Our fire, the fire for our lives and the work we do in the world and our passion for our own lives and each other may we continue to light each other’s fires, thank you for the passion for this work and the energies and the direction of the South welcome.  And the direction of the West, the water, the womb of the world, our tears, our blood, we weep with the Mother and are reborn with her, we welcome the dark, wet, fertile energies of the West and the water.  And welcoming our own spirits into this sacred space and the spirit of the Great Mother and the feminine Goddess and God within and without we welcome you into this space may this be of service tonight.

Heather: Hmm.

SDW: Thank you Heather Rynd for being here tonight.

Heather: Thank you Sarah, yes.

SDW: Heather is, well she’s a friend and a sister, a wise woman and a healer.  May I call you an elder of the feminine and a polarity therapist, a very wise knowing woman with a lot of wisdom in her bones, the energies of the masculine and the feminine and holding the energies of what’s surfacing on the planet at this time and my own, yes, the last, usually the last time I talked to Heather in person, the last time I saw her in person was she has this beautiful bamboo healing hut in Martha’s Vineyard and Heather has served me through a lot so I really wanted to offer her wisdom on this call and give her space to speak so welcome.

Heather: Thank you, Sarah thank you, yeah.  It’s a pleasure.

SDW: So yeah, how are you feeling?

Heather: Well, I’m okay, I’m here and really been taking in, you know always, always taking in what’s sort of unfolding and observing that, oh sorry I’m getting Skype calls in from Ireland right now, oh great yeah, I could hear them coming in

SDW: Perfect timing.

Heather: Oh oh excellent.  Anyway, you know it’s just, it’s really I guess what comes to me, arises in me is sort of the level of dedication and commitment I mean kind of just kind of to speak for a moment on you know just my practice began in 1985, I mean my private practice but it really goes back to 1971 when I started consciously you know embracing this work and then to even go back further into my childhood I would say you know as a child I was blessed with having kind of a wild childhood in the sense that you know in one way because I was allowed to you know just like we had a place in Westhampton Beach on Long Island and a place in New York City and I was able to, I was out in nature all the time from the time, you know I was two years old in the woods and going out and riding horses and you know, getting up at three in the morning and you know in my pajamas with my sister going and running over to pastures and getting all horses and so I was very in tune I have to say I guess I just wanted to talk a bit about the defining moments that brought me to, to this, which I see as an unfolding evolution of souls.

SDW: Mmm

Heather: You know that to me is what is happening here.  That’s the more I go along the more I see that is that the conditioning layers on the soul and that soul has a life of it’s own.  It has it’s own agenda, it really doesn’t, couldn’t care less about what we think. It’s going to do, it’s going to attract in what it needs to to complete it’s karmic contract with whatever, what we’re doing here in this moment in time. So I’ve really come to honor that as in a totality and really witness the rest of the conditioning, the conditioning religious, cultural, you know the system that’s in place of course you know it’s the patriarchal system you know is still, it’s a dying breed but it is in place.  But I just want to go back a moment, go through these defining moments because as a child I had great witness and sight to be able to observe adults and observe nature and animals and I was blessed with that type of early beginning and yet was also blessed, noticed these sort of these heroic figures, my father was one, he was a fighter pilot so when he and my mother separated when I was two years old but when he would come visit, he was so handsome in his uniform, it’s like a two year old was like wow, so my early impression of the masculine was a hero, you know heroic.  But they separated so that was also a wound even though they remained good friends so I had early pain and suffering over the not having that in my life every day.   And so that, when I look at wound and suffering as a child I look at that’s where, that actually has richness in it because in fact you take, when you work through that, you work through wounds and you actually utilize later on in compassion and service.

SDW: So are you saying that, because it’s funny, I didn’t think we would talk about the hero’s journey tonight but it’s sort of come up and I was, before I even got on the phone with you the one book on my shelf that was staring at me and they always, usually a book stands out and before I speak to someone on one of these calls and The Heroine’s Journey from Maureen Murdock was shining from the shelf and but what I think that you’re saying is that our early wounds do dictate our lives and sort of, can shape who we are and you working with the divine masculine and the divine feminine seems like some of it might have come from this wound.

Heather: So what’s interesting is that, just so I can communicate a bit about this, the female, my Mother, represented almost, again, she was so extraordinarily beautiful to my eyes she was Goddess like, so I had this, I had these mythic parents that just visually they were, it’s almost like as a young child you go, ‘oh my God’ and they were pretty separate from you know, they had an adult life so we were kind of allowed to just be children and sort of play, go out and bike, you know this is very young, and so they were separated and I just want to say and we’ll go into that a bit more, is that the entry of my stepfather and he was the darker figure and I had a very keen sense of who was full of light and beauty and heart and who had issues so that was again a dark piece that I had to sort out early on in relationship to this person, this adult, although I could see beyond him and so I developed a sort of a weird kind of acknowledgement of that is that I was seven, eight, nine, and I could see him clearer than he could see himself.  The only reason I’m bringing this, these little kind of defining points is because they led to the work I do now.  The other piece is just that Adam Clayton Powell, I don’t know if any of you know who he is, but he was the first black congressman and he was an extraordinarily charismatic masculine and my mother was having an affair with him and it was very underground and you know I didn’t know it at the time but I met him when I was about five years old and he kind of recited these prayers to me and again it was this heroic, I mean he was civil rights he was one of the first civil rights leaders but he was very much of a womanizer but he was so extraordinarily charismatic and I, it was like it really hit me, they had an impression on me, there was a defining point with all of this and then I come forward, you know come forward and I get to about fourteen, fifteen, I’m in New York City now with my mother and she decides to go live in Spain and she wants to take her girls to go live in Spain and we go off to Spain to live and then I went to four hundred and fifty bullfights in three years so I, that was a life and death, I was observing that and that was hugely defining, I was like ‘Oh my God’.   And when I look back on and I could go more into the story but I’m just trying to get you little pointers of what made a huge impression on me either in pain and suffering or in beauty.  So I had this, it was clear to me that there were two forces going on in my experience.  I didn’t know that was the evolution of the soul at that time, I just was living it.

SDW: Right, right.

Heather: And then I married when I was twenty and I went into a pretty traditional marriage, kind of, not really because again another sort of masculine like this is Carlos Montoya, flamenco guitarist, his son, and so there was like watching this sort of patriarchal, they were all so very patriarchal figures too so I saw the patriarch.  My grandfather was a huge patriarch so I was watching this, witnessing this and going ‘wow’.  I was witnessing the Goddess, the female, I was witnessing the patriarch, I was watching these very charismatic kind of people, I was watching the dark figure, my stepfather who was just you know obviously he had issues so I was watching all of this and then watching these images kind of just came out at me of masculine, feminine, and how that was going to define my life.  So, we’re getting up towards…  Do you want to ask any questions just within that framework?

SDW: When you say patriarch, what’s the difference between patriarch and the masculine?

Heather: First of all, as you well know, we all have been under the patriarchal system and man and woman, feminine and masculine have lived under it for, I’m going to say six thousand years.  It’s a system.  It’s a system of ownership, patriarch means literally ‘father’ and so everything under it is sort of property and that’s a system we’re affected by, all of us.  It’s one to come out of, it’s one that we must all come out of, it’s one to understand how deep it goes and I see it as a dying system because it’s not serving the planet, I don’t know if it ever did, but it’s certainly not serving it today.  It’s a slavery system.  It’s based in, um, when people go, ‘oh, you know men’, I go, ‘no it’s not men, it’s the patriarchy’.

SDW: Yeah

Heather: Men are beautiful.  Men, the true masculine, there’s nothing more beautiful, believe me I know them deeply from as a child I would observe them.  They’re extraordinary.

SDW: So, what’s the healthy masculine, what’s that model?

Heather: The beauty of the true masculine is his ability to you know I think of the true feminine as basically, we as the feminine are the most powerful force, we’re really a force of nature.

SDW: Literally.

Heather: And we know everything about, yeah literally, and we know everything about suffering and we have the capacity to hold great suffering not only of our own but of another, of the planet, because we give birth and so we have this ability we know about pain, you know,  your period, you have menstrual cycles, you have labour we inherently are connected into the most, the deepest suffering of humanity and I think the problem is when we fear it instead of embracing it like seeing it as a gift.  It is a gift. It’s an extraordinary gift because if we can sit in that, if we can hold that space we can about hold anything.  So, that’s the gifting to the masculine, I’m just saying what the feminine gifts the masculine is when she’s with the masculine she also allows or gives permission or holds a space for the masculine to go into that space himself which he has a very difficult time entering and so let’s go back to the true masculine.  The true masculine, how he gifts the feminine.  He gifts the feminine by, yes, his beauty is in his almost a sense of how could I say this, it’s more like okay he’s, imagine he’s in the center and the feminine is just moving around him and he’s holding the ground, he’s holding the ground for her, her kind of, the way she moves and how she unfolds herself and her, how she’s like the wind or nature, a force of nature really and his job is to hold the ground so she can feel into herself because it’s like a grounding wire.  That’s how he gifts the feminine.  So let’s just go out of that for a minute and just go back into conditioned masculine, conditioned men, conditioned woman, I mean that’s a horror, that’s a horror to tell you truthfully.  It’s a horror.   

SDW:  And you see that a lot in your practice. You see people coming to you, you have a lot of couples, you have a lot of women like me that are waking up and like what is my role and breaking out of conditioning and then you have to have a lot of couples that come to you that are just, they don’t know what their role is anymore.

Heather:  And to define that for a moment just so people that are listening know, I see people individually, I could see people in relationships but when I see them in relationships I also see them individually so I can see the patterns they’re bringing to the relationship and sort of see what their souls are asking of them.  I’m very much into that, what’s being asked, listen to what’s being asked and more than expectations or ideas I think where it’s really screwed us up is that…

SDW:  Can I stop you there for a second because my favourite calls are when I actually interrupt people because I hate to forget it.

Heather:  Oh I know I do that in my practice.

SDW:   Oh my god, so one thing is first when I introduced you as a polarity therapist, it’s not fair to just say that and not explain what that is.  Do you mind explaining what that is.

Heather:  Well actually polarity therapy, it’s roots are in ayurvedic system and quantum physics and so we’re really learning the movement of energies and as we not only in the training but it really comes through years of practice, everything begins to be seen through the lens of energy and energy unfolding and moving and really moving into that and into the quantum world and into the energetic world so you know it comes the deeper you go into it and this is what the people learn when they come to this work is they also learn how to do that and so when they come here the whole thing is to be able to witness your conditioning, witness your wound, obviously the wound contains tremendous amount of energy so it’s really important to know our wound, very important to say well it’s a childhood wound, what is that you know I mean obviously and then the release or the catharsis around that wound so the energy is released from the wound and so it’s available to us. So the work is very much in that vein and hearing stories when someone comes in, hearing what went on, where’s their wound, what did they come out of their family with, what is it that they’re carrying and the ego gets very wrapped up into the pain body, as Eckhart Tolle would say, it really does love the pain body and then create story around the pain body and in this work it’s  like knowing what that is and yet really as practice being able to not suppress it but knowing when you’re triggered and you’re going to collapse back into the wound and create story so it really becomes almost, working at this level, it’s almost more like music it’s very vibrational, it’s like I’m working, I’m observing, I’m watching a wound, I’m getting triggered, okay so then I’m noticing what’s being asked of me and unfolding from heart from soul from depth from spirit, what raises my spirit?  What raises life energy?  What suppresses it?  And so ultimately if we’re in our natural being, prana, life energy, polarity is really work of life energy.  It’s really, that’s where it really resides in terms of nothing’s just that black and white, it’s always moving, it’s always changing and we’re really present in the moment and we have these skills to be able to know how to work with, we can virtually shift energy at any time, it’s always us that gets in the way of doing that through our thoughts and our ideas of things or expectations.  Are you following this?

SDW:  Yeah, it’s interesting to me because one thing you always say, you never say like, ‘Hey Sarah what’s up?’  You always say, ‘How’s everything, how’s the energy unfolding?’  And it’s always or like, ‘How are things unfolding?’  Like what’s happening in the play of your life right now and then the other thing is I told you that I left the Island to grow up, to become the embodied feminine, I went through this death of my maiden this winter and became the mother, to hold all this space for others, you know that word other that’s buried in the word mother like when you’re the maiden you don’t really have space for the others, you’re still in the cocoon of your life

Heather:  You’re still in the girl

SDW:  Yeah but then I said to you, ‘you know I’m headed back home’ which you know as far as gossip goes there’s some quote like, some quote about like gossip is bad enough on an Island but then you take a small town on an Island...there’s some great quote about the devil in a bad mood created it or something but it’s like I get really nervous about the gossip and I told you that and you said, ‘That’s not anybody else’s Sarah, you have to look at the conditioning of the wound where you cared about what people thought of you’

Heather:  Yes

SDW:  And so you’re always reminding us it’s not about everybody else, what’s going on inside of us that’s making us feel that or think that way because we talked a couple calls ago that true freedom is not caring what other people think and I think that and when we get to the healthy feminine and how the healthy feminine could be showing up more these days, I think it’s my work to continue not to care what people what and to show people that freedom of expression and living.  You said you grew up with a really healthy example of a woman who didn’t, I grew up with a mother who would literally after a day of hearing gossip about herself would get in bed and stay in bed for days, it would ruin her.  It was so devastating to watch my mother care about what people thought of her because I grew up with the opposite.  

Heather:  I was about to say, I’m pretty sure that this whole piece you’re speaking about, around caring what people think, there’s wound in it so once you understand the wound, you’ll come out of it.

SDW:  Right

Heather:  Just sink more into the wound and you’ll come out of it.  You’ll see it and say, ‘oh that’s wound’ you see once we know wound it doesn’t control us.  Once we bring it to light it doesn’t control us, it’s there and will always be there, it’s right there,  but it’s okay because it triggers us into our practice, it triggers us, we’re not a victim to our wound once it’s up and out and once we have compassion and love for ourself because usually when wound is  down under there’s a lot of self medicating and self abuse and all of this stuff but once it’s up and out it’s like oh there it is again I’m getting triggered and then it goes back into practice.  So when we’re talking about the mother wound you’ve got a strong mother wound because she died, died early, right around puberty I think, wasn’t it around fourteen or something….I’m sorry what?

SDW:  She got sick then and then died right when we turned seventeen, so yeah.

Heather:  See that’s a very powerful wound for a woman.  Women who have mother wounds it’s very hard for them because we really do learn from our same sex, the same for the masculine, when you have father wound it really affects him more than the mother and the same thing with the woman, the mother really is a powerful role model and into what the wound is or what the liberation is.  So she can liberate you or she can liberate you by how she, the daughter is always looking.  Let’s say it wasn’t like that then it becomes the wound and you can liberate yourself from it.  Anyway, we have to liberate ourselves no matter, no one gives us liberation, we do it ourselves through our own understanding of what it is.  You know once we come out of victim, everything works then, once we come out of thinking that we’re going to get off the hook by something being fixed or rescued, once we come out of that then we’re liberated and then we can start moving.  So let’s just go to yes, the mother.  My mother was ahead of her time, first of all she was extraordinarily beautiful in a very classic way and she also….I didn’t grow up with any self medication, I didn’t see people drinking, you know I didn’t, even though alcohol was in the house people weren’t self medicating, it’s very strange.  I never have myself either, don’t know if it’s a genetic thing or what it is.  My stepfather, he would go out to the Stork Club in New York City or something but I never really grew up with that around me.  My grandparents didn’t.

SDW:  I know I’ve asked you about wine and you’ve said some nights, you mostly don’t have it but then once in awhile your body will reach toward it and it’s sort of like that physical whatever that test is when your body either moves towards something or away from something.

Heather:  Well, I mean if I go out let’s say I just listen to the body.  I feel better with consciousness than I ever do.  A glass of wine if I have it or something, it’s because I’m eating muscles.  I would never think of getting a glass of wine in my house and just drink it.  I didn’t grow up watching that either.  So my mother already had, you know she was another, she was very different.  Both parents were incredibly courageous, they were very heroic and it must have been hard for her during that time, which was probably around the 1950’s and she never cared what anyone thought.  She did want you to do the right thing, in the sense of manners, but she saw yourself as totally liberated and she brought us up that way.  Think of her taking children off to Spain in the 1960’s.  So I had that as a model and I have to say it’s probably made it harder in traditional relationships.

SDW:  Right.

Heather:  But I’ve always been drawn to males that are hugely mostly artistic.  I would say the most significant male was Sean Singer out of London and he was always very eccentric, very much individuals themselves.

SDW:  But that takes courage, that’s courageous to be different, to be yourself.

Heather:  Yeah, so I had a lot of that modelling to the masculine and the feminine and so that’s not ever been a problem for me.  But you know it produces issues because that’s not how relationship in the conditioned sense works.  

SDW:  What were we talking about before this tangent was conditioned relationship, conditioned roles under the patriarchy which I think that’s why I’ve been single for a year because I can’t do it.

Heather:  Oh no, it’s a very and I understand it because once you come out of it you certainly can’t just go back and say okay who are you going for lunch with, okay this is another, in other words once you’ve liberated yourself you can’t go smaller.  You’re not going to all of a sudden pull in to have a relationship, you’re not going to contract down

SDW:  I’ve tried to do it and it’s very painful, yeah.

Heather:  Oh, oh no, it’s a killer.

SDW:  Yeah

Heather:  It either does two things, you either get cancer, you get sick, because you know energy never stops so let’s say people that are in, you know I’ll see, let’s say I’ll see marriages where status quo’s going okay but one partner’s off doing emotional----- on the internet or cyber sex.  They’re all living little compartments, ‘oh but we’re fine’, now that is a pure horror, seriously but a lot of married people keep status quo under the patriarchal system and then kind of come into alzheimer’s to get a vacation.  I am serious, that’s how illness is, illness is really suppressed energy that now it creates symptoms and then Western medicine gives you the label.  And then we have a pharmaceutical for that label.  You see so that’s all part of the consumer driven, patriarchal, capitalistic society and so we just have to know that, we just have to know that, that’s all.  We have to know, oh, that’s what that is.  See now when we come back, let’s say right now Sarah we come back and we’re back into our core.  So we’re back here in our inherent nature in core self, this is sort of what you’re speaking about when you were talking about what people think.  So here we’re back in core self and it’s just natural, you’re in your beingness.  Now if you know what your wound is and you know where you get caught and you can witness, you have a good witness present then you’re going to know, you know when you go ‘oh I’m caught up over here and it has really nothing to do with me that has my idea of things’, it’s sort of knowing how we get caught up in these places that really are not even who we are.  We’re disconnecting from who we are to go play out these parts, why?  Why are we playing out a part? That’s a whole other subject.

SDW:  Right

Heather:  Well that comes from trauma because people split into parts when there’s sexual trauma, when there’s physical trauma so that start developing a safe part to interact with themselves and with society in their relationships so they’re not even in their core.  The scary part is that they may live that out and they don’t live out their authentic life.  

SDW:  So, the feminine, the conditioned feminine that I’ve found that tends to be in relationship is pretty much just fine under the patriarchal structure, or the culture, is still pretty much to me in her maiden, like pretty much still, and sometimes I associate maiden with victim.  Not always, like she can be the rebel running through the fields and screaming from the rooftops but she can also be waiting to be rescued and because I’m not waiting to be rescued, I feel a little different.  Does that make sense, like I feel like I can’t quite be what a man wants me to be which sometimes means like small and helpless.  

Heather:  Well, that’s very important to kind of meet with that place because that’s pure conditioning, it’s the pure conditioned and it can be unconscious conditioning where there’s this deeper space of wanting to be taken care of and wanting you know like still looking for the patriarchal daddy, father to come in and take care of it.  I’ve seen women come in with lists of what the masculine should be doing, you know like oh he should be doing this and that and I don’t buy any of that because I’m not into that with the female.  I’m not into she needs to be taken care of and she needs…, no, no we’re not doing that because a female is so powerful that I’m almost shocked when I see younger women still in this model like whoa...we’re still doing this?  That’s simply a patriarchal model, it’s not the truth.  It’s the same thing and then we’ve got the masculine who is nagged under the model, you should be doing this, you should be doing that, you should be doing’ve got this really, I see this often where the masculine is feeling completely overwhelmed by the expectations and is shut down.  And then the feminine, the female, is not feeling like the masculine is present and so you’ve got this really unhealthy dynamic between the masculine shutting down and going yes, yes, dear, yes dear, yes, yes and you’ve got the feminine stuck in not being met by not being taken care of or met and both people have to come out of it, have to come out of that, have to wake up to really have authentic partnering but I’ll tell you Sarah, people are very, very attached to this model that is unhealthy as hell. so I guess I want to support you in your authentic journey as female, as feminine and in your partnering with your masculine and really work and make that a practice of understanding because it does take practice.

SDW:  Well, I do need a man to practice that with first.  I’m hoping to run into someone in the grocery store back on the Island but how did you get to Martha’s Vineyard?

Heather:  Oh well, my sister moved here in 1971 and then I was at the time in my first marriage with Carlos Montoya and had my children Christine and Josh.  And I had ended that marriage and really I started coming into myself as female when I was around 28 and I met my youngest daughter’s father and went into a twelve step program not because I was an addict but he was and so started into Al-Anon and Al-Anon was really my entry into a lot of this work on a conscious level and then it led to two years of Jungian  work so I anyways I came up here in 1978 with my two older children having left my marriage and I came up with Enith Ray----?I want to mention something about sex and sexuality in this whole…

SDW:  Please

Heather:  Liberating ourselves sexually, understanding our sex energy, understanding our orgasmic energy really, you know not thinking, ‘oh it has to be given to us’ but really embracing it, really taking ownership over it is very important in the whole sort of opening and transformational process, liberating process I’m speaking about.  It’s the female taking ownership over all of it.  She must take, not just ‘Oh yeah’, it’s like really own that orgasm, really own your sex energy,  really own it,  know it, feel it, be with it and it’s really understanding also the very powerful energy within that.  I had many ten year, decade relationships, so the third one was where it’s almost like, until we can own it we can’t even go into the tantric practice of sex energy because we have to first kind of really get to know ourselves before we can elevate into sex energy as it’s a transformational process because people are just pretending it to be but really orgasm is very, very important in relationship.  It’s almost like a moment of death, it’s death in life,  it’s very important to know it’s not just pleasure, it’s more than that.  You’re really making love to the Universe, it’s really making love actually to the planet it’s not just personal, it’s planetary and so you’re sending energy out.

SDW:  Well, right and I think that we call forth something we talked about like how important a woman’s healthy sexual energy is for the planet and we talked about priestess work of sex energy but I was once in your healing hut and you passed me the work of David Deida and that’s what introduced to me the healthy masculine and it was almost like, yeah, the feminine is the weather and we’re always changing like the weather the masculine was this calm, steady presence it was grounding, steady presence and what comes to me when you’re talking about this is that you can trust the healthy masculine and trust that things are safe and in that safety you can let go, you can surrender, you can be ravished.

Heather:  Yes

SDW:  He’s written ‘The Way of the Superior Man’ and ‘Dear Lover’ which it talks about the importance of us letting go and being ravished and opening up sexually and I realized that I, not to blame it on men because they’re just as screwed up from patriarchy as we are, but I haven’t been in a situation where I felt safe enough to let go in years.  I’m so, so tightly wound you know..

Heather:  Well, we have to look, we have to observe what we’ve done with our sex energy over the years and you know, we have a relationship to that energy.  Sex energy, libido and life energy are intertwined.  It’s prana, babies are made out of that.  Two people did it for us to be here.  It’s a powerful energy that’s why the tantrics utilize it for meditation.

SDW:  Right

Heather:  Because in fact the tantric practice is such a powerful energy, it’s not a light, little, ‘oh it’s so cute, I think I’ll just go over there’, you can do that but you’re basically taking an energy that’s usually powerful and sacred and I don’t mean sacred in a religious sense but it is a powerful energy and it’s going to be effective.  Women, when they have sex, first of all I want to say something, that the female ability when she’s in this space or speaking to transform the masculine in sex energy is just powerful.  The healing that can happen because we’re receivers so the masculine literally comes in and god, we’re joined and a tremendous amount of healing can happen for the masculine as he experiences that but also the energy is such that we’re receivers so when the masculine ejaculates into the feminine, his seman, his ejaculation, he carries his vitality, his prana within that so if you’re with the masculine, let’s say I don’t know, you’ve chosen to go off with somebody and they’re a certain kind of masculine, you’re going to receive and you’re going to absorb that.  I know people are wearing condoms and so forth but I’m just saying that you’re going to absorb, that’s powerful, you’re absorbing the prana.  And so, the fluids mix, the prana mixes in that moment.  So that’s not something to be taken lightly, it’s not to be controlled but to realize what’s happening in that moment, what energies we’re actually moving with.  Does that kind of make…..

SDW:  Yeah, it does and because we only have about 15 minutes I might skip around here a little bit but we’re just basically tonight I’m glad that we’re staying on the topics of masculine and feminine and in the feminine kind of going back to becoming the embodied, empowered feminine there’s this topic that I haven’t really spoken about and because I’ve been so busy I haven’t been writing enough.  I finally have support which feels like being in a masculine/feminine relationship, I have this wonderful relationship now with someone who’s helping me with my work and I feel like I can be the feminine again which is to be the artist again and be creative again,

Heather:  Ok

SDW:  fruitful, but it’s something I haven’t been able to speak about because I haven’t had time is that I’m sort of removing myself a little bit publically from the Goddess movement right now and it’s not to, it’s a really complicated thing and I’m taking myself out of the seat of the teacher.  Like for-------types, they asked for another bio because Shakti and I are doing our third-----together and I said, ‘Please take out the part that says I’m a teacher’.  There’s a lot going on with the spiritual movement and the Goddess movement that I’m uncomfortable with now and I’m still articulating it for myself and with my close friends but is there anything you want to speak on as far as

Heather:  My concern, as far as you, as I’ve explained to you, with this kind of work that I’ve worked with is really coming out of any labelling because the labelling then sets up another, kind of contracts the energy and therefore we’re not really embodying the energetics of it so any of those labels, whether it’s witch, or it’s Goddess or it’s whatever, I don’t care, wife, husband, whatever it is, you know those I just don’t work under those.  And so the thing that concerns me about the modern Goddess movement, it’s like, well it’s the same thing with tantric practice, well tantric practice is a very deep, deep practice and the Goddess movement concerns me because when I observe it, the modern one, today it’s Goddess movement, it kind of like, what I feel from it energetically, I’m feeling more little girl, still under the patriarchal system in the sense it’s not really owning the depth of the power of the female.  I’m still feeling a lot of little girl energy running around.

SDW:  It’s still very pretty.

Heather:  Yeah and the feminine, of course she can be beautiful, classically beautiful and just so pretty but our depth is in, it’s almost like, standing on the Earth and having, I mean we don’t need anything, do we need anything?  Do we need any, we really don’t.  We just need our core energy, our whole being.  We need to just stand.  I mean it can be a way to enter, but I’m not sure...

SDW:  Of course

Heather:  I don’t see that happening.  It can be an evolutionary process of entering and then coming out of, you know from…

SDW:  I think that’s one stage of it…

Heather:  Yeah, but it can be dangerous because people can get caught in it, women can get caught in it and then if they’re caught in it, you know any belief, we become addicted to the word and once we come under the word then we’re caught again you see.  And so, we have to really watch these labels, whether it’s religious, becomes almost like a religious model again.  Okay, now we’re under this and we’re this and this and this.  It’s very dangerous actually.  It can be very dangerous because it’s not really liberating ultimately.  

SDW:  Right.  And it’s not the whole, you know, it’s the Goddess is all and the Universe, it’s limiting but the words pretty and pleasing come to mind for a lot of what I’m seeing and that’s not going to break and molds and that’s not going to change the patriarchy if we’re still pretty and pleasing and then we’re also still getting caught up in this bless the women that write me but how do I make my following bigger saying I get these questions all the time and it’s like now we’re so caught up in the celebrity machine, you know,  and that we need approval and the approval machine, validation.   

Heather:  I mean America makes everything, Western civilization makes everything into a commodity, right, a way to make money and so it’s become a  consumer driven.  For instance, yoga, my son who’s a yoga teacher went over to my----- to learn yoga because he couldn’t bear how it was being approached in Western culture because it was very sexualized, very different, all the yoga pants and the outfits and the postures and it’s taught very differently over there, it’s really very different.  So but we have to know in Western culture that we immediately go under consumer driven, okay let’s make money off this and the thing that gets frightening is when it’s latched onto and then we’ve got issues.  We’re not liberating, we’re not transforming, we’re just becoming a product and I think that’s sort of what you, you know, I know when we’ve spoken about it and it’s good you have your eye on it because you can see, ‘wow, I could see where this could go, but I’m not going to go there’, I mean that’s basically what I hear from you.  Or, ‘I’m watching that’, because you’re out there you see, I’m on the Island here, you’re sort of out there and you’re probably watching that a lot and…

SDW:  Well, I’ve said no to so much recently that could catapult me into fame or whatever and it’s just not the way that I want this movement to go and it doesn’t feel authentic.  What’s authentic is me constantly dying to become my most authentic self.

Heather:  Absolutely.

SDW:  And you know, this Sarah two years ago could be a poster child for yoga celebrity, this Sarah wants to be in a kitchen rocking a baby and not in some way like barefoot in a kitchen, whatever connotation that is, but my true version of femininity of having a child and keeping a home in my own way and as a revolution for me, of having both, feeling both which I don’t think has really been done before and I think a lot of women are in this struggle to be either or, you know, I’m either going to be a revolutionary or a mother or you know what I mean and I think you can do both.

Heather:  Oh, of course you can.

SDW:  Yeah.

Heather:  Giving birth, the whole we’re speaking about again, you know we talked about sex energy, we spoke about the female birth, being able to labor, give birth, it’s all part of the empowerment we’re speaking about and it’s all within us, we don’t have to become anything, literally.  Forget becoming, it’s more coming out of.

SDW:  More a coming into.

Heather:  Yes, because it’s really a birth right.  We come into this planet, all this stuff gets layered on and layered on and I think it’s actually gotten, you know given the technological advances there’s all these images and different ways of looking, so people are more, ‘oh’, they sort of latch on, you know become sort of corporate, holographic projections of consumer society so I think yeah, I think you have to be very, very mindful of that and stay very authentic and find your own voice and your own way of relating to this. I absolutely feel that for every human being.

SDW:  My favorite thing you said on our pre-call yesterday was, when I say constantly dying I mean being constantly reborn to something new, you know, it’s so simple and I talk about it all the time but when I think of masculine/feminine obviously I think of the sun and the moon and the moon changes every day and we watch that and sometimes when she goes dark I think she’s in some dive bar in Paris drinking cabernet and being like you know…

Heather:  Right.

SDW:  And the work of the feminine that I’m so proud of and so I’m not dismissing this sense of beautiful empowered work of the feminine, I know you know that,

Heather:  Of course.

SDW:  that’s the work I’m going to do for the rest of my life, it’s different, way different.  But yeah I’m talking about stuff I’ve done obviously, the photo shoots and the following and all that stuff and I’m not calling anything bad, I’m not calling anything good, I’m just sitting with all of it but this change, as you know I’ve been in this sort of dark night of the soul, I’m in month eight and I remember emergency calling you when it just started, so painful and you almost like a midwife when people are in the pain, in that dark where we change form which is the only place, you know you’re midwifing it instead of being like you know...somehow meeting it, putting a screen between it, distracting yourself, you’re like stay with it, keep breathing and it feels like birth, it’s like go into it, what is it,  what’s it’s trying to tell you, what’s coming out, what’s dying and what’s being born, like you know it’s a real midwife practice that you encourage people to do.

Heather:  Yeah, so I guess that’s a good way to say it, it’s true.  I don’t have any fear of energy.  I trust entirely, I trust it, I trust how it moves, I trust how it expresses, and so I know that we project a lot of ideas on it when it’s happening, basically everything at it’s core is energy and so when we have story underneath that story, it’s energy and so if we sink down into the energetics of it, it’s just movement, it’s very much like music, it’s just movement and it’s like a symphony, it’s like chords, it’s like vibration and so you know ultimately I trust that entirely, it’s like trusting but yes, it’s very much like a birth and I just want to bring in love here before we end this call because that’s really what’s it’s all about fundamentally.  Is, not love in the conditioned sentimental sense or you know, you scratch my back, I’ll scratch yours, but I mean in the deepest, deepest, sense of unending love and that’s doesn’t come and go, it doesn’t come and go and when the soul and the heart connect, it never goes away.  The karmic contract may be completed between the people but once someone is in your heart and your soul, it never goes away so I always say to people, don’t try to make it go away.  Just let it be there and then see what’s being asked of you around it instead of projecting on it.  So love is definitely just what really holds us glued together it’s not at all what we’ve been taught in relationship to, ‘oh I’m falling in love, I’m falling out of love’, no, that’s impossible okay because it’s like, you don’t fall in and out of love.  No, love is there.  The other part is whether in this listening, you know what’s being asked of you in that relationship at this moment, it’s about this moment.  It’s about what’s being asked at this moment, it’s all we have together so I just want to really be clear around that piece as well as that’s what I’m thinking

SDW:  Well I just ended up finding out that yesterday we were talking about labels and you were like, you know, because I do think of you as a witch and you were laughing because if people could experience our sessions, you know, we do half verbal work and we’re talking about the story and the wound and what’s arising from the wound and being triggered and then I get on your table or the person, your client, gets on your table and it’s a very womb like energy, you can feel which chakra is wounded you can feel which chakra is asking for attention and then sometimes you actually, I think of chakras and clairvoyance in the energetic part because sometimes you get images.  And you definitely, you would’ve been burned at the stake in the old days, for sure.

Heather:  Oh I would’ve been, I’d even be right now I’m sure in some countries but the main thing is in the work, what I’m doing or observing is sort of what patterns are set up and what’s going on, where the wound is, what’s being asked now, where the energy’s being held so when the person has about half hour, forty-five minutes up on the table, the table I’m seeing the manifestation of story and then also these images come out, I mean really powerful, I can see, I can feel them, energy doesn’t lie so once I’m in rapport with the energy and it’s the same when we’re in rapport with it ourselves, but as practitioner and facilitator, it develops a conversation with me and it’s not a projection because I know where to hold that space and it’s not a projected idea of it.  It’s actually coming and opening and it has it’s own intelligence so it’s actually communicating what is going on at the core of the imbalance, where that energy’s being held so it becomes really fascinating and I honor that entirely in a human being, I don’t enclose on it at all but I do enquires with it, enquiries into the energy.

SDW:  Because the energy doesn’t lie.

Heather:  Never.  Never and neither does the body.

SDW:  And neither does what?

Heather:  Well, the body doesn’t lie either so the body is always like...our mind is like, ‘oh no, yeah, I hear you but guess what I want to do?’ and that’s where we go off, it’s like we go, ‘but I want to do…’, and that’s the whole conditioning projection, the wound going in and we can do that but we might get tossed around for quite a while so if we’re just really present it’s going to be an unfolding journey, it unfolds, it’s an evolutionary, unfolding journey here.  And that’s exciting.  

SDW:  Heather, can people do long distance Skype?  Can people Skype with you?

Heather:  Oh sure, I do sessions all the time long distance.  I do by phone, I do by Skype, as you well know I did it by phone with you and I do it by Skype and it’s very effective.  I mean you know it’s all energy, whether the person is lying down, sitting in chairs or whether they’re on the phone or Skyping.  Of course, you know energetically, if they’re lying down, it’s nice if they can come in obviously but I’m way beyond that.  I can go any way, yeah.   I do plenty of long distance work.

SDW:  So, if you’re lucky enough to be on the Island..

Heather:  I’m doing a bunch of work in Ireland actually.

SDW:  What did you say?

Heather:  I’ve worked with two people in Ireland for a few years over Skype.

SDW:  Right.  So if you’re lucky enough to be on the Island, look up Heather.  If you’re not, they can find you have a website or just on Facebook?

Heather:  Well, no, I don’t have a website.  I do have Facebook, actually my personal page is much more interesting than my business page which I keep… it’s like my personal page I’ve got a lot of activist stuff going on because I’m very much into activism, environmental, animal, you know everything, I’m just...

SDW:  Yeah, I always like everything on your page

Heather:  I’m very much on the cutting edge of what’s going on on this planet and and I use Facebook to network and so you may want to come over and ask to be a friend if you want.  You could certainly also go on my business page if you want and you can message me, anyone can and set up a time.

SDW:  Great, wonderful, thank you.

Heather:  So, this has been wonderful and I’m so glad we did this.  And I’ll be seeing you pretty soon here on the Vineyard, is that correct?  

SDW:  I’ll see you in three weeks.

Heather:  Wow, alright.

SDW:  Yeah, it’s high time I get home, so..

Heather:  Yeah, that’ll be neat, that’ll be great.

SDW:  Thank you for this so much.

Heather:  Thank you Sarah, really, great.

SDW:  I wish we could talk longer.

Heather:  Yes, well you know I’d be honored to come back anytime if that’s something everyone wants and we’ll do a part two.

SDW:  We’re going to do one of these on the Island soon, I can tell.  Okay take care.

Heather:  Alright, love you, take care.

SDW:  Have a wonderful night, love you

Heather:  Bye, bye






















SDW:  Okay, Sara?

Sara:  Hello.

SDW:  Hi.

Sara:  Can you hear me?  Hi.

SDW:  Yup, can you hear me?

Sara:  I can, yeah, nice and clear.

SDW:  So, this is Sara Sophia Eisenman, many of you know her from the Coven page and her amazing writings online and she is a writer and a healer and a mother and an oracle and a priestess and a partner and has a new book coming out and is a friend and I want to say hello Sara.

Sara:  Hi, I am so excited to connect with you.

SDW:  How are you doing?

Sara:  I am taking a breath because my husband literally just walked in.  He broke down on the side of the freeway tonight and he had to get towed home.

SDW:  Awesome

Sara:  I know, and he came home three minutes ago to switch off with me with my kids so I was like, sweet!  But I’m good.

SDW:  Perfect.

Sara:  We made it.  

SDW:  We did, we did.  We’re making it I hope.  So, let’s start, I don’t even know where to start.  I have a journal full of questions for you but let’s just start with the book.  You just finished writing a book.  

Sara:  Yes I did.  I’m actually editing it right now, halfway through editing it.

SDW:  And, tell me about that process, how did it come to birth?  Like, what’s it about?

Sara:  I started writing it quite a while ago, I started writing this book probably, oh gosh, five, six years ago because I’d already lived, I mean I’ve got a pretty dramatic life history and much to say and I was already well on a healing path and had started working with shamanism and reiki and was putting the pieces together of what this healing journey was for me and what it all looked like.  But I couldn’t finish the book, I got to the point of well, how does it end?  It just feels like it tapers off and the reason it didn’t end five years ago and me just go ahead and publish it is because I hadn’t lived like half of the book yet, of course, you know?

SDW:  Right.

Sara:  That happened last year. So I lived, because I had a dramatic initiation, a dramatic unfolding, everything came out of Pandora’s box at once and it was amazing, dangerous, scary, confusing.  I mean you could call it Kundalini awakening, you could call it probably any number of things but it was the Goddess emerging, in me as she does in all of us and it was just a very dramatic story.  So, after I got through living all that, which I wasn’t sure if I was going to survive quite frankly last year, I was like, ‘Oh, that’s how my book ends, now I understand’, so I spent the last, well I used Facebook as my amazing sounding board, journal, like a living journal, living journal slash talk show right.  So I got all that great feedback coming in. So I kind of used that as my training ground to exercise my voice and tell my throat chakra what could actually handle this story because there’s so much intensity and power.  So I credit that medium, oh my gosh, for really, and the community around it, for really allowing me to birth this for the last, let’s see what was it, about three weeks ago I decided to take a little hiatus from Facebook and I was like, ‘I’m feeling like it’s time’, and I had done a little fundraising, just a little bit of a nest egg where I could hire a babysitter, which is very rare in my life, I’ve got two home schooled kids, so I wrote the rest, I basically wrote my book in three weeks, the last three weeks.  

SDW:  So, you had an awakening last year?  So it was like a slow building and then like a boom sort of thing?

Sara:  Well, kind of.  I had had a very big awakening in my early twenties which I told you a little bit about yesterday where I had basically a death and rebirth experience and my hair turned from black to silver overnight, literally my entire head of hair started growing silver out of my head because it was so intense.  And I knew that was my, you could call it Shamanic initiation, you know, it was my initiation.  I had no words for it at that time, I couldn’t have called it initiation.  But I had a lot of soul fragmentation from my childhood, and a lot of extreme trauma where there were pieces of me it’s like I describe it like somebody took like a sledgehammer to your soul and the pieces of you just, you know, fly into the galaxy and there were pieces still out there that I didn’t even know myself, you know.  I had done the retrieval work and I had been on the path and I was well functioning in all of that but there was so much more of me, some of my most powerful pieces, my priestess pieces were still in shame and shadow.  And it was last year when I got brought to the test of like dare you accept her, dare you accept yourself as, your sacred sexuality, your power, your big power and it created a major revolution in my life.  So, that was the second…

SDW:  We talked about you, I mean there’s so much to go into here, but when you say your sacred sexual power, are you tying that in with sort of the power of the feminine itself?  What was, did you have sort of an awakening of your sexual power?

Sara:  Basically I had a piece of my soul, I went through abuse when I was about eleven, I went through sexual abuse and was kept by a man, sort of imprisoned in a situation for about three years where he was my exclusive connection with the world more or less.  I did go to school but I went directly back and he was like what one might call a sociopath, I don’t really like labels.  For brevity’s sake we’ll just call him that for now.  There was a part, because that happened to me when I was eleven, twelve years old, right at the moment when the sacral chakra’s activating and we’re blossoming into our sexuality there were parts of me created, literally distinct parts of me that were not integrated and they were the ones who identified as sexual, they were the ones who identified as...and it wasn’t necessarily in a positive way.  It was more in a you know what I would think of as kind of a debased way.  There was a sense of my own self as debased that I had a judgment against my own self and those pieces of me were suppressed and when they came out, they came out and it was a surprise to everyone including myself.  So I had to, you know, really look at them and say okay what is this piece of me and who is this piece.  She was her own, she wanted to be honored as her own, within me and I had to kind of get used to that.  I am a walking contradiction of this mother and a very reliable, devoted family woman and I am like this other thing.  So what ended up happening was that piece of my shadow, that persona was cleansed and in her high priestess power she looks completely different.  When she was brought in, healed and integrated she went from a prostitute archetype to a priestess archetype, so it…

SDW:  That sounds familiar, like someone we love and know.

Sara:  Yeah

SDW:  That sounds like Magdalene.  

Sara:  Exactly, yeah.  ----and what I recognized in the living of it was that I was not living this anywhere near the first time of course, we’ve been living this for two thousand years or more, all of us.

SDW:  Right.  It’s funny everytime we talk about patriarchy we’re always like, ‘for, you know, a really long time’ It’s like some people say two thousand years, some people say five thousand years.  I don’t think it really matters but it comes up every day, like, wait, how long has this been going on?  It’s been going on a really long time.

Sara:  I trace it, in my book, I trace it to the moment, because this is when it starts for me is when Apollo came and slew the dragon that protected the oracle of Delphi because the oracle was in service to Gaia, not Apollo and he came and slew the dragon who was the protector of the site and he basically made the priestesses into prostitutes for him.  Their power was no longer to be in service to Gaia it was in service now to a man’s will and pleasure and that shifted the equation.  For me, that’s what I trace it to personally.  

SDW:  Okay.

Sara:  And that was probably I don’t know, I want to say, probably three thousand five hundred years, if it matters, ago.

SDW:  I think we all have a moment where our sexuality was shamed regardless of story.  You know I remember being in church with my mother and looking at an altar boy and blushing because he was really cute and my mother pinching me really hard and saying, ‘God doesn’t want you to look at boys in church’, or something and me being really embarrassed, ashamed of my feelings of excitement in my body.  And also whenever I went to church and bowed and apologized to a man that I could never really, didn’t know who he was but I always knew he was mad at me.  It was just all so foreign and if I look back now, every time I went to church, the only time it made sense to me was I remember St. Lucius day when we wore the crown and we had candles and we all wore white and did ritual, that was the only time I was into it.

Sara:  You were just at the wrong church.

SDW:  I know. I was like, ‘this feels so familiar’ a bunch of women in white doing ritual with  candles and stuff and drinking, you know having a sip of red wine, I was like, ‘I can get down with this, the rest doesn’t make any sense’.

Sara:  The rest of it for me is a little crazy and a little worse than crazy, like I don’t mind anyone’s religious beliefs but for me there was so much coercion and shame and judgment.  I just, shame is my, you know I’m allergic to it, if there’s even a little bit of it, it makes, we’re going to get the Kali fire, it makes Kali fire in me and I can’t, I am a volcano, the Pele thing happens, the wildfire Kali energy happens and it’s just like I’m vomiting it out.  I’m like, no, I will not, I don’t care, I don’t care if I have to die for it, I will not stay in shame.  So there was that piece of me that was like, ‘I’m going to keep you in a box’ and I was doing it to myself because I wanted to be like my mother in law who’s perfect. I wanted to be her. You know in quotes.

SDW:  Right. Wait, what’s perfect, what was her version of perfect?

Sara:  Yeah, that’s in big old quotes but she is..

SDW:  I know.

Sara:  She is your textbook conventional, the distribution of labor in their household is like the man goes off and he’s the public figure, he’s actually a well known professor and quite renowned and she is his servant, I mean she does absolutely everything for him and if he wants a glass of water, he needs his water first, before me, before anything else he is absolutely served.  And with her children too, it’s the same, they’re grown and they’re on their own but they can still come back with their laundry and their bills and everything and be like, ‘Mom’.  So, there was a part of me that was so hungry for mothering because I didn’t have a lot of that. I just hadn’t seen a positive role model, a positive mother role model before.  I over identified I think with that because I wanted to be liked, approved, you know.

SDW:  I hear that.

Sara:  Yeah.

SDW:  Like in a classic mother I’m so, like my inner child is just like, mommy, like I want it so bad because I didn’t have it and I have to do it for myself

Sara: Yeah, me too

SDW:  So, in speaking of professors you actually, this wasn’t a linear path as none of these healing paths really ever end up being.  You went to school for neuroscience.

Sara:  Mmm hmm.

SDW:  Right, how did that happen?  And you got your, did you get your masters at Berkeley?

Sara:  I got my masters at UCLA.  

SDW:  Okay, so what was that path about?

Sara:  Okay, that’s a great question.  I just, I came from, let’s see, I came from a first generation, you know I’m a first generation college graduate.  No one in my family was at that stage.  I was raised literally on food stamps, really in quite a bad situation and bounced around, so much instability, foster homes in my upbringing, I had, oh my gosh, you name it, just a lot of instability and by the time I was seventeen I said I am completely done with this and I actually moved to LA for awhile and I wanted to be an actress which was impossible at that stage because I had no money, no car and a toxic boyfriend.  That’s a whole other can of worms, but it took me about four years of living in LA and being hand to mouth. I had to train myself how to write and then I became a copy editor eventually at an ad agency and here was this yuppy, posh ad agency in Santa Monica and here’s me pretending that I had anything to do with all of that.  And I just, first I had my initiation which I mentioned where I just I went through a death process essentially and was reborn at twenty-one and following the rebirth I was like, ‘I got to go to school, I need to know, I need to find the answers to these questions that are inside of me’.  And the way I describe it in my book is there is  theory of everything inside my body that needed to be fleshed out externally and I had no idea how to find it externally so I gravitated towards the Sciences because I thought I want to understand about trauma, I want to understand soul wounding, I want to understand dissociation and  soul loss.  I could not use the word soul loss then because I had no idea what that was but these concepts I was experiencing so I ended up in neuroscience  and studied the biochemistry of all of those things to the degree that I could and was in a very high profile science world with nobel laureates and geniuses essentially but I knew that wasn’t my epistemology it needed to be more about the being of it rather than the thinking of it, pushing around the symbols and things but I had a great experience there and I worked with a lot of geniuses so…

SDW:  So, you’ve talked about two rebirth processes and I’m sure you had other little ones along the way, we have them all the time, but the really scary big ones, we had, you know yesterday’s pre-call, I always wish I could actually record the pre-calls too because they’re always so amazing but yesterday we talked about, and I hope this is ok to share, I know that you’re a free sharer which is so for me, in this sort of phase where I love to watch you burn bright basically.  It reminds me of why it’s so important, it reminds me of the excitement of feeling that power and of other’s torches being lit from your own and it’s very exciting for me to watch but I’m more in the stage where you had written, which is why this public writing about our feminine awakenings are so important, our awakenings, our human awakenings really are so important because you had written about sort of being pretty terrified for your health up until maybe a month or two ago, you had let me know that you were better and that you were healed and it was all very psychospiritual for you and you had a moment in a bathtub being like, ‘I might have to leave my kids’.  I’ve been in that, my soul knows what’s going on but the human is freaking the fuck out.  So can you tell us a little bit about that second one that you had and it seems pretty recent.

Sara:  Yeah, it was really recent.  It was about, okay so the first time I sat down to write my book, I told you that I basically just wrote my book in this last month, I wrote a good two hundred pages in about three weeks but prior to that, it was about four or five months prior, and I’d been through layers and layers of this integration of all these soul parts and I mean story after story and layers and layers of the feminine and had every feminine archetype visit me and kind of live in me.  It’s all beautiful.  And I thought I was ready, I’m going to sit down and write now and the minute I started to write, it was so ironic because I was planning a women’s circle, a sister circle called reclaiming your voice and the day that I was going to host my reclaiming your voice, I got laryngitis.  That’s pretty humbling.  

SDW:  Yeah, for some reason that doesn’t surprise me at all.

Sara:  No, it doesn’t, it surprises no one, it didn’t even surprise me.  I was like, ‘oh’, you know, so anyway, I was like  ‘okay, so I’m not there yet’, and I had multiple fevers and I was sitting down to write and I was writing about all the things I’d been told my whole life not to talk about.  Like when I went through sexual abuse and molestation and being beaten at the age of eleven and at fourteen when I finally got out of that situation, after three years of it which basically were quite formative for me, every single person in my life was like, ‘don’t ever talk about that again’.  Anyway, I’d done a lot of clearing about that but when I sat down to really write every part of it, my voice shut down, I got fevers, fever after fever and I have a very high immune system normally, I’m pretty healthy, I just don’t tend to have that.  I got, eventually my whole lymph system swelled up and I had these very large lumps, I got this one large lump that was probably the size of a large olive in my throat and I was like, ‘I’ve got lymphoma’  or whatever.  But I didn’t believe in it, as a diagnosis I don’t want this.  Whatever they are going to diagnose me with if I go to a doctor, I don’t want it, I’m not doing it, I refuse, I refuse to accept that label.  So I undertook this really deep process.  And my husband who is an amazing shaman did a lot of work with me, we had this incredible journey work where my lymphatic system was basically shot from the stress of trying to tell my story and what I’d been through and it was kind of, you know, as an electrical system, it was fizzed out, it just wasn’t doing it’s job so they created this beautiful flower of life like a little microcosm of a lymph system and placed it in my lymphatic system and re aligned all of that and then mapped that onto the world tree of life which was like micro to macro which was this really beautiful journey.  And in addition to that, I was in the bath every single day basically doing my own version of a sweat and quite intentionally causing myself to sweat so I could each and every day evoke whatever it was in my body that was unfinished.  And all these stories emerged, all these unfinished stories.  So I finished them all, I was like, ‘Hey what do I need to do that’s unfinished in me?’.  And one day it was my left arm and I could feel this big energy block in my left arm from my heart to my hand and I’m left handed so that was part of this writing thing.  And it was to do with my father’s lineage and words that were unsaid and energy connections that needed to be cleared.  And I was like, ‘what do I need to do?’.  So I ended up writing these letters of apology to everyone.  Any unfinished business, boyfriends that I hadn’t talked to in 25 years.  And I was like, ‘I’m really sorry about that time in high school when I didn’t pay attention to you’, or whatever, whatever would come up.  And over and over and over I did this until there were no more stories, there was no more blockage anywhere in my body and I could feel myself lighting up at that point and the version of me that was associated with that suppression and that shame, basically was cleansed.  On a cellular level I had to detox that I had to sweat and I had to, I actually ate also a bottle of habanero hot sauce every single day for a month, to produce enough heat and sweat to get that shit out of my system, like you’re gone, you’re done.  And then after that, I

SDW:  The power of that though is like, the power of that is ritual you know that you believed in this, it’s all, it’s what these coven conversations have been leading up to every night. You create your own ritual, you believe in it, you practice it and miracles happen.

Sara:  Mmm hmm, that’s true, yeah, you become your own medicine woman.

SDW:  Yeah and so with this shame and the telling of the story, one thing that comes up to me is a lot of the stuff I still haven’t talked about is because the person who inflicted that pain on me, the wound, told me not to tell anybody and as the thirty-six year old woman who knows that we each deserve to tell our story, I still am terrified of that person.  Does that make sense?  And the shame that would come up from telling the story of being the victim.  So I don’t know if you ran into that with your book and I think the worst thing we can do is hurt somebody and then say, ‘don’t tell anybody I hurt you’, I just think that’s criminal on the deepest level.

Sara:  Oh it’s horrible.

SDW:  Yeah.

Sara:  It’s horrible and I mean that alone is a form of victimizing someone, even if nothing else happened, the minute you tell somebody not to speak you’re, in my opinion, perpetrating something upon someone else.  I hope that I don’t do that, I’m very conscientious about that with my kids.  If they’re angry, I’m like, okay, let’s teach you how to be with that anger in a way that’s healthy but I’m not telling them, hey don’t be angry, like let’s just keep that on the quiet, you know.  Yes, through layers, because what I went through when I was eleven, twelve, thirteen was, if you tell your story I will fucking kill you, it wasn’t just, I’ll be mad at you, you know

SDW:  No, I know.

Sara:  That was him and then there were other people around, I mean, I think the feminine shaming around that was worse.  It was worse when my sisters, I have two older sisters, and it was worse when they said, ‘oh you know, we don’t need to talk about that, you shouldn’t say anything’,  and really protected, I call it the agenda. They really protected the agenda.

SDW:  Right.

Sara:  Rather than saying..  They were totally willing to throw me under the bus for that, completely.  And that really was hard to face and it was like, if I tell my story,  and I say this in my book, if I tell my story my whole family will not look me in the eye again and I will tell it anyway, I will tell it anyway.

SDW:  That’s major.

Sara:  I don’t care how many people I make angry, how much kerfuffling there is that goes out into the cosmos as a result of it.  Like as far as I’m concerned, good.  Because I’m not going to be silent anymore, I’m just not.

SDW:  Good for you.

Sara:  Thank you.

SDW:  Yeah, from the collective, thank you. Yeah, because it’s like for me, you know, you’ll ruin everybody’s lives if you tell what they did to you, you know what I mean and whoo, it’s a big one.  

Sara:  That’s a big one. Huge.

Sara:  Yes, it is a big one. So speaking, there’s a couple things I want to go into here but the one thing we should get back to, you know when you tell your children stay with their healthy, their healthy anger, that’s how we reconnected or I don’t know if we’d ever really connected, we were very aware of each other in the ethers but we, one day I realized that Kali was really sick of my pleasing and my smallness that I had gotten trapped in again and I was incredibly angry, like the Pele walking volcano I just you know, it’s very distinct when you feel Pele inside of you, you literally feel like a walking volcano, she’s the Goddess of the volcano.  And I, Pele was my first Goddess that I ever met and you said it very well in the beginning of the call, when the Goddess wakes up in us, as she does in each of us, and that was the first expression of the Goddess.  And so I reached out to you that day because I knew you had just written this great article on Elephant Journal, which is another conversation, about channelling our rage and the idea of righteous rage, and the idea that it’s part of breaking the patriarchy is no longer being small and pleasing and having healthy rage.  Can you discuss that a little bit?

Sara:  Yeah, I can totally discuss that.  I’ve always been a bit fiery and I think it’s served me beautifully and I’m so thankful for that trait because I see it as the thing that has actually saved my life on so many occasions because even if I was in a completely coercive situation where I didn’t have physical freedom to do as I liked there was that piece of me inside that was like, ‘fuck you’.  And it never felt, it never felt anything but holy to me, holy.  And then when I called the Berkeley counselor at the age of twenty-one and I decided that I wanted to go to University and how was the best way to get into Berkeley.  Because I wanted to go to Berkeley, I wanted to go some place that I felt really powerfully connected to and she was like, ‘ oh you’ll never get into Berkeley, you need to go to the local community college and start there’, and she completely shut me down and there was that little voice in me that was like, ‘fuck you’.  So, I was like, that’s interesting.  Because she said that, I got in.  I don’t know, would I have gotten in if she didn’t tell me that I had no chance? I don’t know, it’s an interesting thought. So I started to track that and I was like, this is amazing.  And when I had my second, what I’m calling wave of awakening or initiation last year, there were some men who came into my life who were basically a repetition of my initial abuser because I was not totally healed so we do that.  And when they showed up they shamed me, they totally shamed me for being Goddess and they were like you’re so negative, your vibration is low and they pulled out that stupid, like there’s this vibrational chart that says you know joy is at the top and anger is at the bottom.  Anger is at the bottom, sadness is at the bottom, I forget what all of them are and I was like, ‘your chart…’

SDW:  Yeah, I can’t live by those rules anymore, that’s not human.

Sara:  Ever.  So I went there and…

SDW:  I can’t do it.

Sara:  No.  And I got totally like A Course in Miracles, I mean there’s beautiful teachings in all of this so when I say this right now I’m not saying that there’s nothing great about A Course in Miracles but there was something about it that felt unintegrated with the feminine and I got pushed to the edge.  I was at a place where I wasn’t feeling supported by my husband at that time yet and I did not have an external mirror of what was going on with me.  I hadn’t connected with the Goddess community, the sacred feminine community.  And I didn’t know what I was, I had no idea what was going on quite frankly, I was like sleep walking.  So I met these men and they saw it, they were like, ‘I’m gonna get control of that Goddess by telling her that her rage is low vibe and I’m gonna shcool her and lecture her and browbeat her’, do you know what I mean and thereby dominate and get control of it and it completely triggered that whole Apollo thing that I talked about earlier where I remember, I have the soul memory burned into me of the takeover of Delphi and what that felt like, you know?  And it took awhile like my husband...

SDW:  Wait, if people don’t know what, the takeover of Delphi,  I just know that you remind me of the oracle of Delphi but I don’t actually know what the takeover of Delphi is.

Sara:  Okay, so what happened was Apollo, the original, this is the original story of Delphi and for me to remember this this clearly is odd, but I have my whole life.  So, the priestesses served Gaia, they served the Earth mother, they were there to merge with the Earth mother and to mediate the life/death portal and the sacred, sexual, sensual  portal between worlds and it was a very serious gig.  I mean like they were absolutely in devotion to that work and they kind of it was on behalf of the all, it was on behalf of the collective and then Apollo came in, who was a newer God.  To me he represents the unhealed masculine paradigm and I don’t like to call it the patriarchy because to me there is  a healed patriarchy that is quite beautiful but the unhealed masculine, dominant paradigm that we’ve all been living under and he came in and told the priestesses that they were no longer allowed to worship Gaia and that they had to worship him instead and they took, he took the rites and rituals and forced them to serve him so that was, like I said, to me, the quintessential moment in Western history when we made a different turn.  We made a turn away from balance and complementarity and into this very lopsided paradigm of domination. Which I call the agenda, that just my convenient way when I say the agenda I’m referring to that whole thing.

SDW:  Right.

Sara:  So these men were representing that agenda to me, completely, and I was like, ‘you’re totally amazing, you’re so smart’.  There was this part of me that was unhealed and was completely like, ‘la, la’, and, ‘oh my god, that’s so great, I’m learning so much’, and that’s what caused my husband to have an awakening because one of these men was quite dangerous and he was really working on me to get me in his control and my husband’s like, ‘Why aren’t you angry?  Where’s your righteous rage?’ and I was like, ‘I don’t know, I don’t feel it’.

SDW:  The holy fuck you that you’d always had.

Sara:  Yeah, no, it was gone and I had none of that, I was like, ‘no he’s safe’ and it was just really odd.  It was this stepford thing and then

SDW:  Yeah.

Sara:  as I integrated and healed more and more of my pieces I eventually got very, you know quite whole and I was in Sedona, I felt the Kali, you know dark Goddess.  I think it was Kali you know more physically in this case, rise up from the center of the earth from the rich Sedona earth into my body and take over my body.  I mean it was a good few weeks she took over my body.  And it was amazing, it was absolutely holy and there was no question in my mind that it was holy.  And she just blazed this fire through my energy field.  And it was known where the boundaries were, you know what I mean?  It was known where the healthful boundary was, there was no blame in this anger, that’s the key, there was no blame in it, at all.  It was clear that the anger came to serve me, to serve me personally, to clear me and to make me centered.

SDW:  That’s what I was wanting to say, I’m sorry to interrupt you, I get so excited.

Sara:  No, go ahead.

SDW:  The anger of, you know, the fire that cleanses us, that’s holy.  That rage, you know, that burns through the veil that we’re not seeing and now we’re not seeing our own power, we’re not seeing clearly, I love that.  That’s what I miss about holy, healthy rage and that’s what we lose when we just start pleasing and it becomes resentment and when we get sick but there’s something very healthy about healthy rage, the holy fuck you, I’m going to totally use that now.  

Sara:  Yeah, when anger burns clean and we don’t suppress it, suppressed anger is the most toxic thing on earth and will cause illness, I believe,  almost faster anything but expressed anger that is expressed in a rightful aligned way is, I’m quite convinced, is the force that can save the earth, that can redeem this earth, that can create the space for women to be in their full power so that we can take on a big corporation if we need to, we can take on racist patterns in the society or whatever it is in a rightful way and most of the women that I’ve worked with they get hung up at that stage, almost every single one because they’re like, ‘oh no, no, that doesn’t feel loving to me, doesn’t feel right to me to go…’ and it’s like, it doesn’t feel right to you because for two thousand years someone has told you that you’re not allowed to feel that and the reason they’ve told you that is because they know you’ll take over the world when you feel that..

SDW:  It’s funny, do you know who Z. Budapest is?

Sara:  No, I don’t.

SDW:  She’s this badass witch from the ‘70s, feminist witch, and she gets really righteously angry a lot and it’s so badass to watch because it’s stuff you’re secretly angry about but you didn’t know you could say it.  And she’ll be like, ‘I look around at all these new age goddesses and witches and no one’s fucking mad, look around and get mad!’  She’s amazing.

Sara:  I love it.

SDW:  She’s like, ‘when you’re not getting mad you’re telling them it’s ok, what they’ve done to the planet’, she’s like, ‘Get mad’.  She’s a badass, that just reminds me.

Sara:  I love that and yes there’s this new age concept like, everything has divine purpose so if you’re in your power you don’t need to get angry, you know what I mean?  There’s this thing and it’s toxic, in the spiritual community.

SDW:  I mean the woman, the witch is a woman aligned with the earth and look what they’ve done to the earth and to you, get mad, you know, it’s very simple.  Look at the earth, get mad. Take back your power.  I just looked at the clock and it said 1:44.  We love that number. So when you are speaking out publically about the unspoken, I like to say that the witch is always bringing out the elephant in the room, witch as in wise woman, healer, goddess, priestess, whatever, the awakened feminine, do you deal with, I know that you’ve said you deal with a lot of shit online with people that are programmed to be like, ‘Sara, you shouldn’t be talking about that or Sara, you’re’, and I think you’ve used the word crazy and we’ve talked about this word crazy.  So tell me about what the online feedback that isn’t quote unquote positive and how to navigate that for people that are using their voice.

Sara:  Well it’s been fine for me, okay like it’s happened to me again and again so the first couple things that happened, as I said, these men contacted me and it was like a blood and the water type of situation they were like, ‘what?  Goddess on the loose.  I’m gonna get a hold of that’.  I mean it was really like that.

SDW:  Totally.

Sara:  And it was a controlling and a ----- mechanism.  It was, I will shame you so that you are beneath me so that I can have power over you, so that I can be your master, teacher, you know, whatever, whatever.  And it was not aligned, so the first few phases were in journey work.  We went in and basically light bulbed that so my light balling stuff in journey work is about compassionate depossession and removing unaligned energies from my energy field which is basically what Kali also is all about, and Pele, clearing the field.  So that was probably the first phase and then it was a lot of women.  Okay, so I did this on purpose because there was a part of me, one of my soul parts, who is quite distinct, she really is kind of her own person, I call her Awe, and my book has a lot to do with her.  She is sexy, like really sexy, and part of me is about this natural beauty and it’s light and bright and it’s like people like to see that, you know?  It’s a safe feminine archetype but she is like the shadow version of that which is mysterious and dark and sensual and the witch.  So one day I had to post a picture of her on my Facebook page it’s like blatantly this other side of me, she is me of course,  but she is quite her own also and all these women came out of the woodwork and they were like, ‘you’re so narcissistic’ like, ‘you think you’re so beautiful’ and, ‘how dare you?’

SDW:  Wow

Sara:  I mean she did it on purpose though, she was like setting bait.  I don’t know why this happened with me at that day, but I woke up and that part of me was like, ‘let’s have this conversation, let’s just have it.’

SDW:  Yeah, I know that feeling.

Sara:  You know?  And so, I drew it out and it was like with the boxing gloves on and it wasn’t to punch any woman out because I wouldn’t do that,  I actually love, I do hold a space in universal love and that’s truth but when a woman tells another woman that if she believes she’s beautiful she’s a narcissist, that’s a problem for me.

SDW:  Right.

Sara:  And that’s what happened.  That actually has been the most painful thing that has come of this is that, ‘who do you think you are?’ triggering of the feminine and I’m like, ‘girl, if you knew how much I love you, this would not even be an issue’.  You know what I mean, like the deep love that is in my heart for every single woman on this planet.  And I’m like, we can do better, and we must do better, and we will do better.

SDW:  Right, right.

Sara:  So, actually although there was this masculine tango, that I had to do this tango with this sort of unhealed masculine to resolve my own issues, the feminine wounding hurt worse.

SDW:  Oh sure.

Sara:  God, that’s the deepest wound I’ve ever had and I’ve had to work so hard because I, like anybody else, want and need sisters and there’s been times when I’m kind of alone with this and it’s alright, I have to be alone with this right now and I’ve kind of had a solitary path a lot of the time because I think I’m the one who will go out and say the most outrageous things sometimes just to clear the space,  I feel like I’m out there detonating a bomb to clear the path for whoever might come through next.

SDW:  I totally know.

Sara:  Yeah, it’s a space that I’ve chosen to hold, but it’s not always that fun.

SDW:  So, you’ve gone through ups and downs or sort of navigated some interesting territories is probably a better way to say it with your relationship to the masculine in the form of your husband and you guys are in a really wonderful place and he’s had his own awakening but there’s women on the coven who, sometimes it’s hard for them to explain to their man or for their man to understand their own feminine awakening and support it and sometimes they’re in the place of, that’s ok, I just need someone to ground me and I love him no matter what but sometimes it’s like, wow, I feel lonely in this.  Can you tell us a little bit about your own path in your relationship with that?

Sara:  Yes, I can definitely speak to that.  So as of about, let’s see, June of last year, I was feeling really isolated, including in my marriage because I was really rapidly expanding spiritually.  I wasn’t quite yet connected with, I wasn’t quite being honest with myself about the big impatience in order to find the mirrors in the community, I was in that in between space.  And my husband and I had been in this relationship for fifteen years, we had a couple of kids, we were working like mad, just working, flat out so weren’t investing in us and I think that’s a lot of it.  I think things just get kind of stagnant and he was like, ‘this is how it is, stop whining about wanting more’.  And I was like, ‘I don’t think you understand, this is, this isn’t me asking for something that might be, it is a fact, I am moving in this rapidly accelerating direction and I want you to come with me’.  It definitely involved putting my relationship on the line and I tried to hedge it and I was intimidated and I was like, I don’t really want to have this conversation and I tried to be, as I said, I tried to be my mother in law.  I really gave it a good go, I was not brave by any means.  But life took me there.  So, it wasn’t until I went right to the edge and I was like, ‘if we don’t do this, it will end’.  And I was in a dangerous situation at the time which I’m not going to go into detail about, it’s all in my book though.  And I was in danger, I was actually in mortal peril at the moment and it took that for my husband who’s always been, I’ve always looked in his eyes and seen a shaman, I’ve always looked in his eyes and seen this beautiful, supernatural light in him, but it took that for him to go...actually the spirits that I’d worked with for many, many years, the guides, started speaking to him directly and he was like, ‘oh my god, like I see it, I’m with you now’.  And I needed a soul retrieval, as it happened, really badly and my shaman who I normally would’ve gone to, a mentor of mine, a woman, amazing woman, but she’s all the way in Maine and she’s busy.  I called her and said, ‘I’m in peril, I need you’.  And she goes, it was August, she goes ‘I don’t have anything until December’.  She didn’t have any appointments between August and December.

SDW:  I hate that.

Sara:  I know, I was like, ‘I don’t think I’m going to make it that long’ I wasn’t going to make it.  And so my husband, I told him, this is do or die right now, and he looks me in the eyes, this is as man who has never spoken to a spirit in his life or even had that kind of conversation, he comes from a very Western, rational upbringing and he looks at me and goes, ‘I’ll do it for you’.  I’m like, what are you talking about, you’re going to do my soul retrieval for me?  Who are you right now?  And lo and behold, he did.  The spirits came to him, he went into a journey for me and performed the work that was going to save my life.  And that’s how it went down.  So I don’t have any, you know my only advice that springs from that or reflection on that is, sometimes it’s really essential for us to put it on the line, in a way that’s uncomfortable, like as long as we’re still playing at normal and playing at small, life isn’t going to give us the big gift because we’re hedging, you know?  It just requires you to really get out on the edge and be like, I’m jumping.  And when you do that, when I did that anyway, and I believe this is the case universally, the spirits manifested physically, I mean there was undeniable miracles going on but it wasn’t until I was at the edge that that happened.

SDW:  Right.  So you’ve talked about the healthy masculine, what is that to you?

Sara:  The healthy masculine, well first of all my husband, he’s like, ‘I really need a t-shirt, I want a t-shirt that says dark goddess is my dream girl’.  

SDW:  That’s hot.

Sara:  He is a Kali revering man and I think if you can hang with DG, you’re my man, because there are scarce number of men on the planet right now, and I know it’s going to shift hopefully soon, who can hang with that.

SDW:  That’s awesome.

Sara:  And he loves her, he loves that energy.  In journey at times he’ll try to run up to the dark goddess because she’ll appear in journey work or I’ll be embodied as her and the other guides, male guides are like, ‘no, no, no, no, no, don’t look at her, don’t go there’.  And meanwhile my husband’s like, ‘Hi, I’m Hanan, I love you’, you know it’s just the cutest thing ever but he is totally in service, he has a totally righteous heart.  He’s fierce though, he still has a warrior ethos, like a strong warrior ethos.  Like if I were to take a hard line on something, his would be much harder and I think that’s a key point.

SDW:  We need that.

Sara:  Yeah, the aligned masculine doesn’t look like, I mean you’re not singing kumbaya all the day, I don’t think, like there is a time and a place for some serious ass kicking and they’re in there doing it.  

SDW:  That’s the warrior and the hero.  Who is the dark goddess to you.  If someone’s new to the dark goddess, how do you explain the dark goddess?

Sara:  Well, I think it’s just the energy of rightful anger.  So to me, anger comes to visit us, male or female, anger comes to visit when we are violated or perceive ourselves to have been violated.  So if there’s anger in your life it’s probably because your boundaries at some point have been trounced and you may have some energy, you know we all, I believe, have had energy in our field that doesn’t belong to us that shouldn’t, in quotes, be there, we all know everything has divine purpose but it’s your intuition telling you somebody has taken something and/or is up in your business in a way they don’t belong.  And we often will try to stifle it and be like, ‘oh no, no, no, it’s ok, it’s ok’.  

SDW:  Right, it’s okay.

Sara:  Yeah, it’s all okay like sure go ahead rape--- me, take whatever you want, I’m fine, it’s good.  You know what, it’s not okay and it’s okay that it’s not okay.  I think the other thing is...

SDW:  It’s okay that it’s not okay, totally.

Sara:  Yeah, so trust the intelligence of your anger that if you say, okay, I’m in a safe container right now, I have got a process to get me through this and a safe space in which to conduct that process which those two things are not that easy to come by, that’s kind of one of the things that I help people structure.  Just to find a safe space for anger is not always that easy.  How can I be with this anger in a way that isn’t going to hurt someone else, so I’m not inflicting, and it’s also about, it’s a two way street so within the anger, there’s a personal accountability piece that says, whatever the hell made this happen, I’m responsible for being really aware of that and making sure that it doesn’t happen again or healing that piece of me that allowed this in whatever form, whether it was, like a karmic soul wound or whatever.  And then the second piece of it is letting the other person know, hey, you need to respect me, you need to stand at the appropriate distance and boundary and revere who I am just like I will do the same for you.  It’s very democratic actually, the anger is democratic, if that makes sense.

SDW:  I love the respect part.

Sara:  Yeah, it’s actually about mutual respect.

SDW:  I felt like I came to a head with a woman yesterday and because of the unfolding of the Coven Conversations, every night something sort of transforms in me and something dies in me at the same time.  And I had a woman in my house yesterday and because of all the lessons of this summer when she really tried to take from me I said, ‘you know that’s not going to work for me.  I want you to know I respect you but this isn’t going to work’  and I was like, ‘who’s talking?’, you know.  And she just kind of like backed down.  She needed to be heard that she was respected and then she left quietly and it was like, ‘whoa’.

Sara:  And that’s what it is because sometimes it’s just an ask for love and it’s like hey, you don’t have to violate my boundaries to be loved by me, you don’t have to come in and grab there’s no need to take what I’m going to freely give you, you know what I mean?  

SDW:  Somebody said to me this week and you know we hear so much amazing stuff all week but everybody’s showing you their vulnerabilities, if you just let your guard down for a second, you’ll be able to see theirs because we’re so overly, I’m not speaking for everyone but I overly protect, and especially because I’ve been on the road alone for a year, I’m fucking exhausted, you know I’m always in a new town so I’m like so walled up and if I let that wall down, I can see what their vulnerability is, what they’re trying to protect and then everyone just kind of softens, you know.  It’s like...

Sara:  Yeah.  What I’ve found is that after the dark goddess does her work and after we’ve let that anger burn, then it stops, everything is stopped.  But if you don’t ever allow yourself that stage than you can’t really get to the softness because you’re still in this uncomfortable, quasi invaded situation, you know, you’re required… in order to be soft you must be sovereign, let’s put it that way.  To have your true softness...

SDW:  I love that.

Sara:  you must be sovereign first.  From the stance of your sovereign completion, it’s easy to be soft, it’s easy to be loved and to radiate and overflow in every possible direction and it’s like if we just give ourselves permission to clear that space, that’s what we already are, there’s nothing else there but love, you know?

SDW:  Right.  So, Sara….

Sara:  It’s like this beautiful secret.

SDW:  I know you’re a big believer in miracles and for those who need a little fairy dust and who need to believe again, I can’t think of anyone specific, how do you shift into what I’ve heard you call the miracle zone?

Sara:  Okay for me the miracle zone is just a matter of remembering who we are first of all, if you’re thinking you’re needing a miracle, then you’re probably not really remembering exactly who you are in the first place.  So, it’s kind of a little ---- if you’re in a contracted space you’re going to be all pinched and if you’re in a big, expanded, white space then you’re going to be all Goddess.  You’re going to feel big, and majestic and capable and from that standpoint what I’ve found is that, whatever process gets you from,in my case, from little Sara to big Sara, whatever takes me into the big, wide me, if I hone that then I can enter the miracle zone at will because from the perspective of expanded me, everything looks beautiful.  So miracles are already effortlessly enacted, it’s just a matter of being in your flow.  So whether that’s about, I think a lot of us need clarification because we get globbed up with all kinds of gunk and it’s about sweating that out or dancing that out or speaking it or expressing it, whatever clears you because once we’re cleared we expand.  So whatever gets you from that contracted state to the expanded state is like ninety percent of it and then the icing on the top of the cake is, and so it is...boom...and it is.

SDW:  Boom.

Sara:  You’ve got your magic wand, you know how to use it, it’s just easy from that place.

SDW:  I saw you with the wand when you said that. Sorry, go ahead.

Sara:  When we try to manifest that from small ‘I’, we’re going to fuck it up every time and it’s going to be comical because we’re trying to manifest from this contracted notion of self but when we’re in big self, that’s the ninety percent, the rest of it is just like, ‘oh and I’m playing now and it’s fun and there’s like we’re going to make the grass grow, we’re gonna…’ You know what I mean?  We’re going to see miracles, like healing miracles.  Anybody who comes into your state if I’m that and I’m at the grocery store, people are healed at the grocery store and it’s accidental. It’s amazing, you’re in your overflow, that’s the word, you’re in your overflow.

SDW:  You totally have a Glinda the good witch thing going on.  So, not that we need to be good or bad or whatever.  I wanted to ask you, I know that we have to wrap up in a minute here.  We’ve all been feeling this, I talked to you about my frustration, I’m through the hump that healers deserve money but I don’t think that the culture has caught up with that.  Where are you with feeling compensated for all that you give?  And I know that you’ve run into like writing, like blood writing and then not getting paid and things like that so where are you with all of that?  I know you said you felt like there was a shift with energetic exchange/monetary exchange for the amazing work and soul that you put out.

Sara:  Thank you.  I think we are in a shift and I think the reason why it’s a big crunch for some of us is that the one’s of us that are quite aware and cognizant of that are the ones who are processing the major blockage around it and I think when we break that it’s just going to flow, flow like the river of Jordan or whatever, it’s just going to flow freely and beautifully and open.  And I think we’re almost there, I think we are there.  I think I am there in my being and in seeing the manifestations of that and in accepting it for the first time.  The biggest thing for me was I had this vow of poverty in my energy system which many of us do if you’ve have the healer lineage.  If you have the lineage of a healer who’s probably been made to take a vow of poverty or been given the equation that spirituality equals poverty-----  And there is some logic about that I think it was in resistance to the greed and in resistance to the misuse of money so all of that makes sense.  Oh my gosh, oh my gosh adorable, a little mouse just poked it’s head out of my backyard to say hi when I said that.  So, I think that one of the biggest things I’ve had to do was commit myself to the spiritual work and there was actually a ceremonial breaking of the archetypal vow of poverty in my energy system and I had to kind of allow that. And you know, my ego actually chafes at success.  Some egos want success and some get nervous about success, right?

SDW:  Right.

Sara: Do you see that too?

SDW:  Uh, yeah.

Sara: yeah, so some of us are just like we can’t enough of it and we want everyone to pay attention and all the abundance we can get a hold of but for some of us, it’s the opposite.  For me, my ego would tell me, be modest, be poor because it’s a midwestern thing and a million other things.  Anyway, I started asking, being open, I also started trusting, that was the other big piece that I was like, I trust, I trust that when I do the work and I open the space, the money will come and it’s aligned and perfect.  And I stopped number crunching or worrying about any of that and doing more things on donation basis and just going with it.  Going wherever the juice was, wherever the juice is, is where I’m going and to create from the juice.  Like always create your monetary offerings, you know your compensation based offerings from the juice wherever that is.  Then moving into that more deeply.  I feel like there’s a new era, I don’t know what’s going to happen with my book but I feel like there’s a new era of abundance coming in.  I’ve seen it and the spirit’s like, yes, you deserve to be treated that way.  I’m like really?  Yes, yes, you do, you really do.  So, I think it goes back to our childhood and the self worth, right there.

SDW:  Right.

Sara:  So deep.

SDW:  That’s exactly what Heather was talking about, like, ‘where’s this come from, look at it’.  So, you’re a big speaker on aging gracefully and you and I have laughed where once a week we think we need botox and then we’re like wait a second.  I know we have to wrap up but what are some of your tips for staying with the beauty of natural, graceful aging?

Sara:  I reject the notion of aging all together. I think it’s such a total myth.  I do.

SDW:  No, I believe you.

Sara:  The silver hair thing happened and so people really like that and it’s a symbol of something.  I’m like, rad, that’s a symbol, I had no idea quite frankly that that was but it helps open hearts so I’m into it.  And, I play a lot, I play with my kids.  I plan to keep playing until the day I die.  I know I’m already half pretty much angel at this stage, there’s pieces of me, due to my extensive soul loss, pieces of me on the other side already so I know that that’s there and that’s fine.  And I know that I’m a few thousand years old or many thousands years old already, you know what I mean?  I feel all of that.  What’s this forty thing?  Like somedays I’m a volcano so what could forty ever mean?  I don’t take any of it at all seriously, I think it’s a dance, it’s a laugh.  It’s easy.  I don’t know if that answers any questions, I mean, I still have my vanity.

SDW:  It does.  I feel younger listening to that.  So, how can people when it’s ready, buy your book and second part of the question is how can people work with you?

Sara:  Oh thank you.  My book I don’t know yet because it is going off to some potential parties, interested parties probably next week and I will not know what the situation with that is for a little while but definitely if people want to connect with me on Facebook and they’re not already that would be awesome.  I’m on there a lot.  And healing offerings at the moment, I offer some Skype sessions so I usually offer like one hour at a time anywhere you can buy a package of three.  Consultation and we do move energy, a lot of energy actually in those sessions, they can be quite deep actually.  So, it’s kind of perhaps, you know, a lot of it’s to do with the sacred feminine and orienting toward all of that --and there can be some deep healing work done too.  And then my husband is doing the shamanism work which is absolutely exquisite and his work is all about kind of the paradigm I outlined of bringing soul parts home and releasing that which is no longer aligned, if there’s anything in the field and connecting people with their divine archetype is usually a third piece of it so we all are all of goddess and usually they’re couple resonants that may be specific to that individual, specific soul lineage so it’s about connecting them to the deepest pieces of that, it’s amazing.  And so we do that as well.  We do it as a team because I’m actually usually present, I’m always present in spirit form in his journey work, I’m actually a guide in his journey work, always.  I’m there.  So, it’s quite beautiful because we’re really a team in it, so that is just a passion of ours right now.  ---we’re thinking of creating some new offerings to do specifically with divine union because we’ve seen there’s kind of a demand for that and people are----


Sare:  yeah, so that could be a next peice essentially.

SDW:  So, they can find you on Facebook and reach out for a session?

Sara:  Yes, they can do it that way, that’s probably the easiest way.  I also have a website, my website is It’s a little, I need to re-do it but you can definitely get a hold of me that way.

SDW:  Wonderful.  Well I just want to thank you for everything you shared tonight it went by so fast, as usual, such a blurr.  

Sara:  I know, it was great though.

SDW:  Thank you Sara. And is there anything you would like to sort of leave us with tonight, or...I never really asked that.

Sara:  Well, I don’t know I feel as I’m out here in my backyard, I’m seeing miracle reflections and just appreciating the way that nature is reflecting, like there’s several curious little animals that are poking out their heads and saying hi, and the sun’s going down and there’s a beautiful hot air balloon and I feel like the earth is in this conversation and that pleases me more than anything ever could.  So, I wanted to…

SDW:  I actually, I have to interrupt you again, because I forgot for our first caller but I always ask, how do you think the feminine is healing the world or how can the feminine heal the world?  I always ask that question and I didn’t ask Heather so it’s up to you to answer it for both.

Sara:  I love that question.  I think we are, we are microcosms and I think our first duty is to, duty, I hate that word, but you know,  one of the most wonderful things that we can do is to connect completely with ourselves in wholeness and recognize that our wholeness is the earth’s wholeness.  Our health is the earth’s health, our recognition of ourselves as love is the recognition of the entire earth’s recognition, I mean every single, you know, seven billion persons on this earth also, that they are then love, they are then known as love.  Because you are that, you are all of that.  So it’s this very microcosm to macrocosm relationship that I have with all that and in my world right now, as it stands, in my energetic world there is heaven on earth.  There is utopia here, utopia!  And I know that this can extend everywhere to every last corner of this planet.  Every dark corner that’s right now war torn, in shadow, people are dying, people are starving, I know that every single corner of this earth is heaven.  It’s here, there’s nowhere to go, there is no other place to seek heaven, it’s already here.  When we remember ourselves as that then we create the space for everything to remember itself as that and enact it.

SDW:  Beautiful.  Yes. Thank you.  Right before I talked to you, you know I haven’t even had time to sit and listen which is the work, you know, whatever that word means.  But I heard the earth ask me, ‘how can I be healthy if you aren’t healthy?’ And it reverberated for me in so many different ways but yeah, that connection, to keep that connection.  The microcosm, the macrocosm and I’m so grateful for your answer and thank you and thank you for all the beautiful wisdom you offered tonight.

Sara:  My sincere pleasure.  thank you so much for creating this, I love that you did this.  I honor you.

SDW:  I honor you too.  Have a blessed night.

Sara:  One last thing, I came from such a solitary place with all of this, like in such a weird, quiet corner of thinking that I was, you know that quote about Frida Kahlo, I wonder if there’s somebody out there because I am and so you’ve created such a beautiful platform for that connection and I just bow, I think it’s absolutely beautiful.  Thank you.

SDW:  Thank you so much.  Yeah that quote got me through and I just kept seeking the way you keep seeking and then suddenly there’s voices in the dark going, me too, me too and you’re nice.  

Sara:  Yes, beautiful.

SDW:  We are not alone.

Sara:  No, we are not alone.  The heavens rejoice.  We sometimes think the earth doesn’t have anything to do with heaven but all the angels cheer for us when we do this.  All the angels and it’s like, oh heaven is this perfect realm so how could they ever need or reflect anything?  They give a damn what happens here.  They give a damn about this earth, big time.  And so…

SDW:  I believe that.

Sara:  It matters, it’s sacred.  

SDW:  In my most sacred moments of connection, exactly what you said, I feel in my bones is that the angels are rooting for us down here big time so thank you.

Sara:  They totally are.

SDW:  Heaven’s cheerleaders.  Okay now I’m going to let you go, have a beautiful night Sara.

Sara:  Okay, thank you, love you.  Love you all.

SDW:  Love you too.

Sara:  Bye.

SDW:  Bye.