ABOUT ALEXANDRA SCHUELER.  Ali is here to passionately provide you with experience-based tools that inspire life-changing awakening in the feminine, promoting emotional awareness, spiritual fulfillment, wild self-expression, as well as a connection to our bodies and their natural cycles. She's here to support you in unleashing and embracing your wild feminine nature, while cultivating sisterhood in your life. She's your go-to women’s embodiment guide when it comes to leading a life that is alive with your wild feminine nature. My services provide women with an initiatory experience through the lens of sisterhood, guiding them into a lifestyle that is inspired by wildness and fueled by their femininity. We’re talking women worldwide unleashing and embracing their wild feminine nature, baby.

SARAH: Okay it’s 7 where I am. It’s 8 where our incredibly special, vulnerable, powerful, strong and soft woman present— um, speaker is tonight. She’s in Vermont and I am in the middle of the country. I am no longer in Taos. I’m in Omaha where I almost got married. Hopefully, that says a lot and um…so we’re just going to ground and then I will introduce Ali.  So let’s all take some deep breaths, close our eyes. Remember this is the good stuff in life. This doesn’t have to be the hard stuff. We are coming together to nourish ourselves and let’s remember why we are here.  And remember when we take these breaths, we breathe into our nose and up along the spine and we open crown where we receive divine wisdom. So we’re going to do three of those…sink into your bones, get soft and then inhale through the nose, up along the spine… opening the crown…exhale out through the mouth.  Remember the deeper we inhale the deeper we let go. So inhale…up along the spine, hold it in the lungs, open the crown…exhale…like the breath of the ocean, last one, watch that great wave rise inside of you…inhale…up along the spine, clearing the lungs, opening the crown, holding it there and when you’re ready just really let go.

Then we’re going to call the elements of the mother; the earth, the north, the direction of the north and the energies of that earth that holds us and sustains us through all her seasons and all of our seasons.  Thanking her for holding us tonight in the cradle of her earth; that we come together to heal ourselves and to heal her so we hold her energies with us and welcome them.  Calling in the energies of the East; the air, the breath, may the breath do the work for us tonight.  Like the (ruin???) book says, when we’re loving it’s not actually us that’s loving; love is loving through us.  May our breath just flow through us and do the work for us tonight on this tired, deep, night and getting deeper and deeper as we turn…the wheel turns dark and then thanking that breath, that inspiration for being with us tonight.

Calling the direction of the South; the fire—our fire, our passion for our lives, and each other’s lives and the earth itself.  Thank you for this passion for this work and for the women who have come together on this call.  We welcome the elements of the South—and the fire…

Moving to the West; water—the tears and the blood that flows within us and without us; the tears for the Mother and with the Mother; our own tears that move us down the river of our own lives and cleansing us and through that process we are reborn.  We welcome the energy of the womb of the Mother and moving to the South;

The sacred South; may this work not heal not just us but everyone on this call and may it send a ripple effect –Welcoming the divine presence of the South, the goddess within and without—we do this work in her and in her Honor and blessed be.  Jai Mai, the circle is open.

And tonight we have Ali Schueler of Wild Woman Speaks. I’ve been looking forward to this call.  I know it’s been the longest summer and I think, you know, as the earth cools down from her heat, she’s realizing how tired she is and how much energy she’s spent and she’s really ready to crawl slowly towards –crawl towards her long winter’s nap.  I think a lot of us are feeling tired and burned out but we’re also, you know—I’m so grateful for all your dedication to these calls and there’s tons of you on the call tonight which shows how excited you are.  I’m still here looking at people from all over and I just want to welcome a women’s embodiment, empowerment coach and lifestyle creator, writer; she re-wilds women with their natural inherent feminine spirit and she’s a leader but she leads through her vulnerability and I’m really grateful to have her on the call tonight – Ali of Wild Woman Speaks. Hi Ali.


ALI:        Hi Sarah. Thank you so much for having me.


SARAH:                 You could not be more perfect to do this call (laughs) so in honor of you, I told you I would sing and I want to open Coven with a song because we haven’t really brought in much song and we didn’t get to do a new moon coven.  So you know, I was thinking about the beautiful work of the feminine is that no one asks anybody to show up perfect.  We ask them to show up human and real and you’re an amazing embodiment of that and the feminine asks we reveal not just our light but our dark so I thoughT I would sing this song for you really quickly...


ALI:              Uh hmmm


SARAH:     … and I’m not a singer so this is me showing up. Like, I’ve been told in fact that I’ve broken glass before but this is me offering this to you so maybe you can close your eyes.


ALI:        Thank you. Yes (laughs)


SARAH: (singing)               Mother of darkness, mother of light

                                               Guide us to our home

                                               Mother of darkness, mother of light

                                               Guide us to our home

                                               We all come from the Goddess

                                               And to her we shall return

                                               Like a drop of rain

                                               Flowing to the ocean

                                               Mother of darkness, mother of light

                                               Guide us to our home


ALI:        Mmmmm, thank you.  That happens to be one of my favorite songs.


SARAH: I had a feeling tonight’s all about feeling…


ALI:        (giggling) Yes, it is…


SARAH: … (inaudible) and the powers within ourselves and you’re in a really—in a strong emotion right now which is sort of broken open – you’re in a true space of vulnerability and I was wondering if there’s anything you want to share about where you are right now with us.


ALI:        Yeah, I would love to.   So where to even begin.  I feel like based on some of our brief conversations, we’re in a bit of a pill during, in terms of our brokenness, and I – the summer for me has been one of incredible change and transformation and really opening to new parts, not even new parts myself but more parts of myself that have been like dormant and it’s been a lot of me walking through the fire of some really intense experiences and navigating through a lot of grief and loss and letting go in order to step into more of an embodiment of these parts of myself that have been dormant and really needing to come to the surface for my…for my highest self-expression and higher service.  So today I… it’s actually really interesting… I hurt myself exercising.  I created some sort of neck injury for myself the other day, and I’ve been in a lot of pain and I’m able to move around a little bit more today but it’s really taking a lot out of me right now and I’m  hardly sleeping.  So I’m like running online, no sleep right now and it takes a lot to just even move in general.  I feel the injury in almost any way I turn and I like literally have no mobility in my neck right now and I don’t get injured like this often, so when I, and I don’t get sick often either, so when I do, I really take the message and first of all, try to slow down to some degree, which is not easy for me or come naturally as I’m sure many of you can relate to, because we are doers and givers and give so much of ourselves. So after taking the messages of slowing down, I, you know, read books, a lot of calls and sort of try to allow myself to just relax and to not… doing too many commitments.  I looked into sort of the symbology of what the neck represents and what neck injuries represent and a lot of what came to the surface was of course some letters of communications, and our voice comes from our throat and…but there’s also a lot about relationships and speaking our truth in relationships.  One of the references I read was about, you know, when somebody’s a pain in your neck or like when there’s a relationship with tremendous amount of pain and so it was a lot of relating to that. For me, I have gone through one of the fires I walked through this summer was a very huge break-up and it was a beautiful parting but as with, you know, relationship transitions, they can be bumpy and so I’m currently navigating a lot of grief and just what comes with the letting go of a very long-term,  very deep, very intimate, very powerful relationship and um, I immediately was able to connect the neck injury to what I’m currently processing around the letting go of that relationship and it was just a huge check-in for me today of like ‘wow’. I have slightly been avoiding the grief around this and avoiding dealing with the aspects of closure and yeah, I’m just sort of sitting with that and today was… I think I was moving a little too fast and several things happened one after the other and I just found myself in this incredibly emotional, distraught space and feeling that broken open that you were mentioning,  Sarah, like, feeling that physically, really in my body, like feeling my heart just like crack open, you know, and surrender to the experience of the grief and just letting go of the relationship and also just so many layers of transition that I’ve gone through and shedding and it just hit me this huge wave and I – when I was getting on the phone with Sarah before we got on this call and we sort of talked out some things and I was just you know, in that place of broken on the floor crying, really surrendered to the experience of it all and um…uh (sighing)


SARAH: It’s a very vulnerable work we do. I mean even like I sang you that song cuz it was my gift to you because I love you like one person, I shouldn’t watch the calls but one person like immediately hung up like (laughs) it’s like…


ALI:        (laughs)


SARAH: It’s like we do this but we’re so used to this…like here’s my soul and you know, 20 people unlike you with your posts about how your soul is feeling at that moment and you have to just keep going.  It’s not for them, it’s for me and a few people that resonate but it still – there’s this skin that comes with this work for whatever reason, and we’re going to get into how you did this work, but of course it’s going to take its toll.  I mean, you know, I watch you go, go, go and I’ve watched, you know, I’ve watched your summer and it looked from all, you know, from my point of view, it looked like a sexy, liberating, happy, full, you know, with the grief of…that you already have of your brother, which your followers know about and you’ve let us into that grief, and it looked like a wonderful summer, right? I mean that’s…


ALI:        Yeah.  Absolutely.


SARAH:                 And then, you know, falls, [gets as close to our neck ???- can’t understand what she said here 12:36] and that means things are slowing down and we have to really stop and  look at things and it makes sense you would be feeling this way.


ALI:        Absolutely and I really feel how…I feel, you know, the cyclic nature inside of me really taking…it’s really taking the reins right now where I feel autumn on, you know, right around  the corner and feeling ready to turn inward.  I think like you said this summer for me was this really beautiful, profound, sexy, fun experience but it was, you know, summer is so outward.  We’re like out there with ourselves, you know.  Everything is so bright and full and I think now I’m just… I’m right on that cusp of like 'ok, I’m really diving in now’ to the internal self that hasn’t been out on the surface.  That yes I was navigating but the work of it wasn’t really up on the surface.


SARAH: Right.  And I have to say, you know, for some reason, who Shakti is coming to mind, you know, you guys are my two friends that you guys have these like bodies like machines and you’re very sandstone and you, you know, you’re very active and like, I think, you know that I struggle with Lyme’s disease so I’m not active like I used to be, and so…but there’s a lot of masculine energy there, you know, and so when the feminine – and that’s the paradox that we keep talking about on these calls…I told you, I’d do the work for you tonight, (laughs) is that…


ALI:        (Laughs)


SARAH: I’m a good girlfriend – and these calls…what did you say?


ALI:        You’re such a good girlfriend


SARAH: What did you say?


ALI:        I said you’re such a good girlfriend (laughs)


SARAH: Why thank you – Holding your hand – So the paradox of this work, you know, where this feminine movement, you know -- I love talking to women who are almost literally in my [inaudible 14:27/14:28] in such a lonely world as we shift the paradigm and we’ve never done this before, there’s no handbook for this, you know…


ALI:        No, no…


SARAH: Such…where this feminine movement but we have… we find ourselves being so masculine about it with how much energy it takes, how much penetration to pierce the old veil, how much movement, you know, literal movement a movement takes and so we don’t get to be as feminine as we like so then our feminine is like ‘Hey Ali, I’m gonna hurt your neck so you gotta slow the fuck down and look in’ …


ALI:        Yeah. Exactly.  Exactly and that’s totally what I took from it and I think I was – you’re so right like approaching the work around the fem from the masculine stand point and so today like, I mean when we spoke on the phone earlier, I was just like fully in my broken open, vulnerable softness of like ‘I don’t know what to do? I just need you to see me right now’ (inaudible 15:24)




ALI:        you know, and It’s like that’s where so much of the feminine work comes in when we allow ourselves to be seen in our vulnerability like that and not hiding behind the mask, like the protective shell of the masculine, and I think I tend to do that and it is a struggle for me sometimes to be seen in my vulnerability and take the masculine cloche off and just be in that softness.


SARAH: I say the same thing about your pictures and my…I get a lot of when people meet me ‘Oh you seem so tough and strong’


ALI:        Yeah


SARAH: and so sometimes I try to live up to that, you know.


ALI:        Yup.


SARAH: and I’m still amazed – I’m so amazed when I can call a friend and I’m like sniffling, sliming through what I’m trying to say and I’m crying such a mess that they just…that they still love me.  I think that somewhere in us when we have this quality of you know our contracts being public like some part of us still is asking for, I don’t know…some sort of validation to be loved.  I do believe that all (star??) contracts have that, the contracts of (inaudible 16:41)


ALI:        Absolutely.


SARAH: There’s some part of them that didn’t feel enough just by being. Do you know what I mean?


ALI:        Totally. Oh completely.  I, I can so relate to what you’re saying.  It’s like a continued journey for me to be, to actually reach out when I’m hurting and to feel comfortable doing that.  Normally I just go it alone and you know, hole up in my cave and then come out once I’m all better rather than letting anybody see me in that, so the days when I actually take the step to call somebody or reach out in my completely messiness, that’s like a huge fucking step for me (laughs) it’s like a massive step and I think that yeah, there’s this part of me that fears being unlovable through it because it’s like “Am I going to be too much? Am I going to overwhelm them? Will they not know what to say?’ or ‘How are they going to deal with me?’ and ‘Can they really see me in this?’ and that’s been a journey with my online group and the women that I work intimately with where I like slowly allowed them to see more and more pieces of me and my vulnerability, each time being like ‘You guys still love me? You still love me? You still trust me? Do you still think I’m awesome?


SARAH: Right, right.


ALI:        Do you still think I’m great?’ Because I’m so – because there’s this child-like fear of becoming unlovable in my mess.


SARAH: Right.  I --- I have a lot to say about that as far as…so how long have you been doing Wild Woman Speaks?


ALI:        It’s been, I think, two full years now and there’s other incarnations of it preceding that but two years as like “Wild Woman Speaks”.


SARAH: So I’ve been doing this for 5 years and I’ll say this and I remember the first time I was starting to get like paid to priestess, okay and it’s like it shifted everything for me. I was like…suddenly it was work. Like, I had this…when I showed up to the Goddess, I was sobbing into her velvet robe outside in the grass going ‘heal me!’ and you know, it was working.  That’s why I made a living, a life out of it, which caused me to make a living out of it, not a big one, but I need it you now… and so (laughs) so I…that’s giving me life, and I’ve struggled with that a lot too, the financial part of you know, and I’m sure we can talk about that too, so but then suddenly I’m getting paid to priestess and because I’m…then I’m not doing it on my own, those sacred, intimate times with her, so I’m not being really fueled by her. I’m doing it to hold space for others and then like, say there’s a new moon and, you know, and I have 15 people coming and I just, as much of us do on a new moon, want to crawl in a hole and die…I’m not allowed to do that. So I call this the crisis of the priestess and it’s a very tricky line and I sort of felt when we talked tonight before, Ali and I didn’t do the pre-call.  We wanted to be totally raw, live because the pre-calls sometimes takes some of the like excitement out of the actual call so we’re live.  We haven’t planned any of this and we’re just seeing what Goddess wants us to talk about. Yeah. I’m a child of the 90’s, I’m 10 years older than you, so like MTV Unplugged, like when the musician… like Pearl Jam would just show up, no practice, just soulfully --- yeah…(laughs)


ALI:        Yes, I love it.


SARAH: Right. That was the amazing… when Eddie Vedder wrote “Pro-choice” on his arm, do you remember how hot that was? And like they were like trying to pull the plug but they couldn’t.  It was amazing.  So I sort of was getting some energy of like the pressures of the priestess when you’re…


ALI:        Yeah


SARAH: You know, ‘cause the priestess is divine and so what I think we’re trying to merge into is more of a human priestess. It’s like I think the perfectionist part of the patriarchy; let’s show up with your hair all done, knowing exactly what we’re going to say, with our power points. Yeah.


ALI:        (laughs) (inaudible 20:44)


SARAH: So tell me how this has shown up in your life, the priestess pressuring. Tell me about that.


ALI:        Yeah. So…


SARAH: And for women…a lot of women on this call are moving into or that is their life, so.


ALI:        Yeah, completely, totally.  I can totally feel the vibe that there’s so many women that are stepping into that role in their lives and are in this group and um, yeah, I mean I think that’s one of my greatest struggles with being in a position of putting myself out there to the world and like ‘Hey I’m talking and I have things to say’.  You know like ‘you wanna listen?’ and when people are listening then it’s like ‘Ok. I’m really fuckin’ vulnerable and really fuckin’ human’ and I chose to make the commitment myself. Um, I think it was like 2 years ago when my brother passed away…um


SARAH: I didn’t know that was only 2 years ago. Wow.


ALI:        I know, I know, it’s insane.  I’m dressed in a full outfit of his right now.


SARAH: Yeah, I know you love his sweat pants.


ALI:        Yeah, totally.  So when he passed away, it brought up this level of vulnerability and grief as you can imagine and just this tender realness of me that I hadn’t…that I don’t think I had really fully allowed myself to experience before and in feeling that of myself, I made the commitment to just show up like full (inaudible 22:19), raw, human and I think before that I…What I have learned from what I was seeing online and social media in this, you know, crazy internet day and age that we live in, everybody seems so perfect on line and I was like ‘man’, you know.  I felt like I needed to live into this sort of idea of perfectionism and that one day if I just ate a little healthier and exercised a little bit more and you know, healed myself a little bit more that one day I would be in that place of perfection too.  And so I was addicted to all of these [messes] of healing and working on myself and doing self-development that I think were, you know, a lot of it got me to where I am and I’m so grateful for them and were so important, but some of my addiction to all of it was keeping me from being able to show up fully humanly in my interactions and online and how I…even just my friendships, I think, and so you know, losing my brother cracked me open in this way that it was like ‘ok’.  I felt like I didn’t have a choice but to be fully human in how I showed up and so I made the commitment to myself to just be fucking vulnerable and just like let it all hang out, let myself be seen in, and mostly through my writing and how I share in that way just be seen in that way and it’s scary every single time because I look at all these people online who have, you know, thriving businesses or are icons or out serving, whether they’re large or small in what they’re doing…there’s such an element of perfectionism in the way that we present ourselves often and so I’ve tried to just go against that you know, and be honest in a lot of my writing of how imperfect I am because I think that there’s such a slippery slope with that with people online and so every time I choose to share myself in that way, it still scares me because I wonder if I’m doing it wrong and wonder if…okay I see… I realize that there’s, you know, a small group of us on line, you know, getting larger who are, you do the same thing, Sarah, I watch you all the time do this, showing up really authentically and vulnerably and in that raw, transparent sort of state, and I, and I just question myself still, you know.  I still wonder like is this going to be my downfall? Am I going to become too human? But I think that the biggest thing that people need to see right now is that transparency and feeling the…I feel the labels that are projected onto me and onto you and on to anybody who’s putting themselves out there in terms of the pressures of the priestess you know. There’s so many labels that are automatically put on somebody when they chose to put themselves out there or categories or things like that and that’s been actually something that…I guess that’s one of my biggest current struggles is feeling some level of concern about how other people are projecting onto me in certain ways.  Because there’s so many…like with the word “wild”, for example, there are so many different ways that people perceive that word and it could go any different direction and so somebody can see me do something in my life that they’re like ‘that’s not wild’, but that’s not how I’m talking about it, you know. I’m talking about it in terms of like, uninhibitedly like wildly expressing ourselves, like letting that true, wild essence pour forth and so it’s…I think right now just navigating like how to move through those projections and how can I show up more humanly and transparently to avoid some of those projections being placed on me.  It’s one of the things that are really big right now.  Um yeah, so that is one of the big pressures.  I guess I’ll stop there.


SARAH: Yeah. I know with that word ‘wild’, I even caught somebody thinking I meant something different by. Yesterday, I got this new Stetson hat (laughs)


ALI:        You have a new what?


SARAH: This new Stetson hat and I get mistaken for like being – When I was in Montana, two people thought I was a legit like, rodeo rider.  They were like ‘What event are you in?’


ALI:        (laughs)


SARAH: and I was like ‘Event? Excuse me?’ and they were like you know, and then yesterday I was checking into this – I’m like on this crazy cross-country trip and I stopped in this place called The Oasis Motel on the side of the road in South Dakota last night, and she um, she said ‘That’s a wild hat’ and I said ‘Well I’m really into wild women’ and then I realized that they were like ‘Okay?’ and then I go ‘By which I mean free’ and then she goes…and then one of the women goes ‘there it is’.  And I was like ‘Yeah, there it is’.  I mean free from labels, limits, so being in this like paradox we keep finding ourselves in the wild woman movement, is like ‘Now I’m a gypsy. Now I’m a witch. Now I’m a goddess. No, I’m everything’. That’s the point. I’m everything


ALI:        Yeah. All of it.  All the archetypes, all these expressions in my eyes that’s how I see it because there’s so many  facets of it and my perception is that the wild woman claims all those parts of herself.


SARAH: Right.  I uh, I—my friend – so this is like, this is like when we used to show up on road trips with my mother, you know, ½ mile before we got to whoever’s house. There was this thing where she would pull us over, brush our hair, brush our teeth, put, you know, lip gloss on because we had to look perfect, you know, before we came into people’s houses when we were little.  My twin sister and I and I rolled up like having had to pee for 5 hours like, you know, like a bug in my tooth, and I was like you know, (laughs) I said Jenn [???] and I walked in and she has 2 little ones so the house isn’t clan enough ‘oh thank God’ and I was like you know, I said ½ a mile ago I was like ‘I should stop at a gas station or something’ and I was like this is the woman that when my fiancé left me 5 days before our wedding she called the wedding store(?).  I was sitting next to her while she was like ‘I got to send the wedding dress back’ and they were like ‘we only do that in emergencies’ and she goes ‘oh excuse me, this is an emergency’. I’ll never forget it, like, I don’t think I need to show up done to this woman’s house. She’s seen the floor cry for 7 days (Inaudible 29:06) (laughs)


ALI:        Totally (laughs)


SARAH:     Yeah, like just the undoneness, you know, and I think the more we show up like this, you know, the more we empower other women to just show up and then this is, you know, as good as anything I could have prayed for had we prepared and we both felt perfect, which I never do, you know.


ALI:        (laughs) Absolutely.


SARAH: and one of the courses I want to teach with you in our upcoming course is the pressures of the priestess, you know.


ALI:        Yes, I’m totally game for that.  I’m so excited about it. (laughs)


SARAH: (laughs) So um, how did you find your passion for you k now, when I…people ask me about you I say ‘she re-wilds women’ and you can tell me if that’s wrong, but what were you doing before that? Like, how does this become your life?


ALI:        Well I think it all started…it definitely started from health, like I got really into like health, and natural health as in so many different diets and all kinds of shit like that and it sort of got me, you know, interested in just living an alternative lifestyle as opposed to what I grew up living and from there I…it was actually, I mean the main thing that got me into it was really…I started eating a raw food diet.  I ate a raw food diet for like a year and I lost my menstrual cycle towards the end of that because I was so malnourished and lacking so many nutrients that lead to, you know, a woman having a natural healthy menstrual cycle, and so when that…one day I was suddenly like ‘oh wait, I haven’t had my period in a while’ because I was so disconnected form my body.  I like, even though I was all like ‘I’m eating so healthy and I feel great’ it was like I was still so – I was not embodied, you know like…I was preparing for my body but I wasn’t embodied and so I, I just one day realized and was like ‘shoot I just don’t feel super great. I feel kind of unhealthy and I feel like I’m lacking something’ and the main thing that I felt was lacking was the connection to my feminine essence and I suddenly felt like I was lack.  I just felt brittle almost. Like the...for me, like, feeling the feminine essence in my body is this like juicy, bright, vibrant, you know, strong like pulsing force in my body and I didn’t feel that.  I was really skinny and I just didn’t feel that vibrancy in me anymore.  And I could see the direct correlation between having my hormones and my, you know, my menstrual cycle flowing in a healthful way that was connected to that sort of that aspect of my femininity and so I really got interested in getting myself balanced again. So I went through a whole journey of doing that and in the process of me researching what would be good for me to do to get myself back into balance, I came across all this literature and people talking about, you know, the moon cycle online and like talking about the menstrual cycle in terms of a woman being connected to the lunar tides, which I know you talk about a ton with your women and I’m sure it’s been talked about a ton in the Coven and um, and once I found all of that, I was like ‘Woah’… there’s this whole women tribe of women online that are you know, into like, reclaiming their femininity and you know, being really authentic and free and empowered and finding their empowerment and I slowly started finding you know, more of these little like, pockets of women all over the place.  I started going to women’s empowerment retreats and studying with mentors and meeting more like-minded women and connecting other women who’ve been on that path for a while and really just meeting like-minded women who are like ‘I want to feel like an empowered woman, an embodied woman, a feminine woman” and so that’s sort of what set me on my path and it was um, really – and so I did a mentoring program with this woman, Alisa Starkweather, for about two years and it was called “Priestess”.  It was her priestess path apprenticeship and that was really like the – I began it right after my brother died and I’ve been on the path of like, the you know, the priestess archetype has always really spoke to me and I was doing that work and I was on that journey but that was like okay, this is going to be like the changing point where I really… it felt like it was the next step in stepping into my power and really like claiming my work and my service in the world and I began it literally the one month after my brother passed away and it was a fucking life savior because otherwise I don’t know what I would have done without this body of work to guide me through my grieving process and to give me a space to breathe and heal and transform and process and … you know, coming and then in that that’s when I sort of unearthed what I am doing now with Wild Woman Speaks.  And it was in the priestess training that I found my priestessing power to feel like I could guide women and really support women in that way.


SARAH: Um… It’s, you know, you keep talking about your brother and that you went – that it softened you, you know, and it could do the exact opposite to people.


ALI:        Yeah


SARAH: I think had you not been into your priestess studies you might have gone the other way with it, you know.


ALI:        Absolutely. Absolutely.


SARAH: Yeah.  I uh…


ALI:        Yeah, I totally feel that.


SARAH: … go ahead.


ALI:        Go for it. (laughs) So the… I just could see how, you know, using my parents, for example, I…I thought…what happened was me… I became cracked opened. I softened. I’ve opened in some ways in the face of this grieving experience and I could see from my dad, he was already hardened emotionally and it cracked him open for a period of time and then he went back to pretty hardened again.  So like you’re saying, how it could have the opposite effect for somebody and shut somebody…just like deep loss like that can shut somebody down even more or I think that when the opportunity is taken it can crack us open to a deeper level of vulnerability and I mentioned earlier it was that moment when it happened that I made this choice, because I guess what I was seeing was like ‘where is grief in society?’, ‘where is that getting talked about?’, I don’t  hear anybody talking about how to deal with grief, it definitely is not forefront anywhere.  And I had no idea what I was getting into. I was like…I was like what are these feelings, these experiences, I’ve never grieved anything like this before and I just decided like, I’m going to engage this fully and not repress things and let myself feel and I’m going to talk about it because I honestly pissed off when I was realizing what I was in for with this loss in my life and realizing how little support systems were around and realizing how many people didn’t want to talk about grief and I, I just decided, I’m going to talk about this, I’m going to be open about it and I’m going to speak to the fact that people don’t do anything with like, grief isn’t an encouraged experience generalizing, and yeah I chose as a softening and opening moment instead of a hardening and going deeper into my shell which is a tendency as the kind of person that –I’m a Scorpio so I have this very like tough-like exterior like we were speaking about earlier and it is really easy for me to gravitate to that but I chose to go the softening route instead.


SARAH: You’re actually a triple Scorp, aren’t you?


ALI:        Yes, I am. (laughs)


SARAH: So I have major sign envy with Scorpios, so the fact that you’re triple Scorpio (inaudible 37:40) it’s pretty green every year. So um, the thing…


ALI: (laughs)


SARAH: So I’m headed to see a friend who, when I knew her, we were in, I don’t know if you know about Conde Naste, like, like it’s called Conde Naste, but we called it Conde Nasty because we were bred to be so tough working at you know, we worked at Vanity Fair and Vogue and GQ and (inaudible 38:01) and we were bred to be tough and perfect.  If you saw “The Devil Wears Prada” you saw how the energy was there.  Um, so I met this girl that I’m headed to see her new baby in Chicago in two nights and she had a loss, and this was the toughest chick in New York, and she had a loss and what it’s done for her besides the vulnerability which she chose to go soft because it was her mother and she wanted stay because wanted so badly to feel her mother, it cracked her open to a mystical spiritual side that she never had.  Where I was the butt of all her jokes you know, like the cheerleader and the goth and I was the goth and you know, …  so this is a whole movement I want to touch, but you need a reason to reach for God.  You need a reason to say ‘isn’t there more than this?’ and that is one of those brutal gifts of death is ‘okay, there has to be more than just I lost them and that’s it.’ What if I still feel them? What if I could sense a song on the radio or a smell in the air, like I know there’s more and that is one of the beautiful things death does is opens the door to the spiritual side of things.


ALI:        Um hmm (agreeing)


SARAH: And I hid this for her, so now we have something in common, you know. Like, she’s not laughing at me anymore. She’s going ‘Can I get that number that medium’, ‘Can I…’ you know  and I’m going --because I experienced so much grief that eventually I was like ‘this can’t be it’ on my knees going I demand to know there’s more and I got it.


ALI:        Umhmm Umhmm.  Absolutely. Absolutely.  It totally taps that level of loss, like…it taps a person in their…can tap a person in to like, the like, spiritual like, this spiritual undercurrent that flows through all things and like these, those divine moments of…of literally like me getting in the car and being like ‘I’m going to put on the country music station just because, you know, fuck it, maybe a song that reminds me of Dereck will be on’ and I turn it on and it is the one I used in the memorial slide show at his memorial, you know like…these crazy little things that are like ‘Oh yeah okay I feel you’, you know, ‘like you are with me and you are guiding me’ and I, for me, like, a huge thing that happened was—I, so I chose to really…I had been writing and blogging and doing some stuff online previous to his death, but I feel like he is feeding and driving what I’ doing, you know like…


SARAH: Oh I’m sure.


ALI:        …he is (inaudible 40:48) he is like the force behind so much of this and my love for him is the force behind so much of this because it was born out my grief process that I stepped into doing the work that I’m doing with women.


SARAH: So, it’s so potent that you say that to me and… because I only made you talk to me for an hour tonight like, we might just have 20 minutes where we can go a little longer, discuss a little longer, but trying to prepare for the call with you


ALI:        (Inaudible due to overlap (41:15)


SARAH:                 But um, so the things that are born from things that… from death, you know, and…if my mother hadn’t died so young not loving herself, Do It Girl wouldn’t exist because everything and ever…because of a ripple effect of a mother who is the entire center of the orbit of the Universe, if the mother doesn’t love herself, nobody learns to love themselves if the mother can’t care for herself, nobody can.  You know, I think that—what…what great feminist, uh Wolf, was it Naomi Wolf, she says that, you know, “A mother who loves herself gives her children the power to love themselves too” and a mother who doesn’t, you know, basically sets them up for like an emotional death (inaudible 42:00) right…

ALI:        Yes…yeah


SARAH: Yeah, so, also here I am, you know, I had this one love of my life and I had this epic failure of a…of a, you know, 5 days before the wedding thing, but I wouldn’t be helping others if I hadn’t learned to help myself. I wouldn’t be healing others if I hadn’t learned to heal myself. So even though there’s days, talk about the pressures of a priestess, there’s days I want a lobotomy, a white picket fence, to be watching Keeping Up With the Kardashians on my (inaudible at 42:30) married in Detroit, you know, like, there are days (laughs) to show up like I (inaudible 42:41)


ALI:        (inaudible 42:40)


SARAH: What’d you say?


ALI:        I’m just laughing because I was literally saying the same thing to a girl from the (inaudible 42:47) I was just like “you know sometimes I wish that I could just, it was that easy to numb out and not feel, but I, I made the commitment to it and I literally…there’s no turning back now (laughs).


SARAH: Well it was so weird, like, two nights ago for this Coven I cancelled our New Moon Coven, like I told you, and I thought that I was doing the right thing because there wouldn’t be a lot of women on and blah, blah, blah, and so when I didn’t do ritual and I got up from sending that email and like, I was like, I needed, even if one other woman and, and actually like five others were going to show up, I needed that.  I needed to (inaudible 43:23) and you know because like, like Caroline Myss says, you know, we walk away from the spiritual world again and again because it’s the hard way that’s why most people don’t want to do it.


ALI:        That’s right.


SARAH: It’s constantly being accountable, owning your shadow, all the bullshit that we have to fucking do on this path of love, you know.


ALI:        (laughs)


SARAH: And um, she’s like, but over and over you try to return to normal life and every time ‘wow the spiritual life is the only true life’, you know it’s deep life and the rituals is how I you know, how I practice my spirituality…um it’s spirit plus ritual so when I don’t do that, I forget there’s so much more and this right in front of me looks like all there is and that’s a really depressing stupid thing, like literally (laughs)


ALI:        (laughs) Totally, I’m so with you on that.


SARAH: Yeah I miss…I want to hear what the angels and God are saying, I can’t listen to my ego’s thoughts one more second, you know.


ALI:        Exactly. It’s just like I’ve just like…it’s boring me to death listening to my ego talk.  Give me another voice.  Yeah.


SARAH: Yeah.  And speaking of that, back to this you know, place…I think you and I are constantly, you know, we walk to the next level and then we wear that role for a little bit and then we go ‘I want out of this fucking role’ and then we shed that role and then we, you know, then we’re naked, and then we are wearing a new dress and then we want out of this dress um and so, it’s funny, you know, I…there was a lot time where I was really focused on like the Goddess image of this work and today I woke up with, I told you, my head is like the size of a beach ball because like I don’t know if it’s the space that I slept on but I’m also, I have like, I have a complication where my immune system is exhausted, so little things are bothering me all the time. And my friend was really sweet she’s like “this isn’t like a live thing where they can see you, right?”


ALI:        (laughs)


SARAH: She was really looking out for me, you know, it’s like…(laughs) “fortunately for them no”, but it would be another great way to show up but this movement isn’t being about pretty. The earth in this day isn’t really pretty right now.  We talked about the important of anger on the last call and you know my favorite feminist witch, the Budapest saying “Girl, get mad at what they’ve done to your planet. Feel your whole rage.” You know. So, it’s almost good not to show up pleasing and pleasing all the time, but that takes a lot of vulnerability too.


ALI:        Absolutely.  Because we’re constantly put up against this image of perfection and so I see it with this, with you know, all the celebrities out there, it’s like “Oh they’re happy and living their beautiful lives. Everything so perfect” or so it appears, you know. And then here I am feeling like a mess and I’m like ‘fuck it, well I’ve made the decision to show up in my mess, no matter what’. When I’m messy, when I’m joyful to the people that I’m interfacing with and that is really fucking challenging sometimes because there is this image of perfection that we’re like, I feel like, constantly being compared against and it, it’s challenging to take that route when you see this other image of like faking it that‘s there and it’s like ‘oh well I’ll look way prettier that way if I do that’, you know, but I just…I just can’t, I can’t do that. I can’t.


SARAH: Well I can’t tell you how many times I have written a post from my underworld in my darkness where people, you know, immediately I either get “are you okay” blah, blah, blah, people super worried about you, which I’m not good with worried energy because it seems like negative energy focused on me, even though they mean well. Um but they don’t realize that now I am, because I spoke it and that heals it by bringing it to the surface and taking out the tumor.  Also, it’s just like telling women “smile” like stop telling them to smile, don’t tell them everything they write has to be “or you manifesting your total abundance today?” I mean…(laughs)


ALI:        Yes (laughs) Yes!! Oh preach woman, preach!! I’m so on board with that. Seriously. I’ve had experienced the same thing when I have written a post and I’m like, you know, in my private group for women I’ve shared some like pretty heavy poetry I’ve written that’s like intense, like my major underworld shit, like you’re talking about and you know, I’ve gotten reached out to from people before and even just publically when I’ve shared about my grief, I get that reach out of like “it really worried me the way that you are writing” or like “are you okay right now, like it seems like you’re really deep you know, in your pain, blah blah blah” and I’m like, yeah, but I am sharing it and that is like my catharsis, that is my like, my healing in putting it out there and my, the other side of it, is that I hope by exposing my grief, by exposing my human, human, human pain it will help somebody else know that they have the permission to share that as well or to even just feel it and let themselves be like, see that part of themselves because I think a lot of people aren’t even willing to look at that underworld, dark, murky area of themselves.


SARAH: I would be more worried about you if you had lost your brother 2 years and were going through a massive break-up and never said anything about it, I mean, that’s what people want from you, because your discomfort makes them uncomfortable and like, it again with the feminine—you know now they’re like ‘oh my God, I have to feel something’ and they put it back on you. Um, but I…I go back to this every call but like, you know, that perfect sunny…this sunny disposition is patriarchal because it’s the masculine which is the stability of the sun, everyday rise and shine, no matter what.  (Inaudible 49:20) somebody died, you know, the dog is sick, I show up and I shine and nobody knows. And the moon is like, I need a moment. I’m going (inaudible 49:29) drinking cabernet for two days (inaudible 49:33)…what she has to do, and then she’s like here’s the show for three days, you get totally romanced and seduced and like, blown away by my beauty and power. Now I’m going to take a moment. What better way to be?


ALI:        Yeah. (laughs) That was so (inaudible 49:52) Oh my God I love it.  Yes, totally.


SARAH: If she can do it, so can we.


ALI:        Yeah completely, and that was exactly one of the big things that I really started to notice when I was sharing about my grief and whether it was face to face and I’m telling somebody about it or whether it was just me sharing a piece of writing I did online, poetry or just like me speaking about my healing experience of it. Um, it really brought to the surface who didn’t, who it made uncomfortable, ultimately and the reactions that I would get to it were just so insightful because I saw me feeling my feelings made a lot of people uncomfortable and a lot of people, just the reaction that evoked or lack threof, a lot of people turned a blind eye to it, you know, and didn’t want to look at it or hear it at all and then other people it would evoke a reaction but it was almost like a repressive reaction or I don’t’ want to hear this so I’m going to like act out and say something to try and silence it or like be, like ‘oh you’ll be okay if you do x, y, & z’ or like ‘just do this and you’ll be fine’ or ‘he’s with you’, like little things that are  like, ‘just shut up’ sort of vibe was (inaudible 51:10) and it’s like ‘I’m actually gonna keep feeling over here, thank you very much’.


SARAH: Right. Well that was what we talked about a lot is that I was shown at an early age ‘here take this pill so you don’t feel that’ you know.


ALI:        Yeah. Yeah.


SARAH: and um, yeah, I mean, the thing is that grief, the thing I learned about grief it’s a language one has to learn and one learns it by going to school as in they’ve had their own grief which means they understand it becomes…first of all there’s a couple of rules.  Saying nothing is worse than saying the wrong thing, you know, pretending you have like some contagious disease and if they talk to you while you’re in grief they’re going to get is not the way to handle it.  But the next, and you know, the next thing is that it’s an energetic language that they have to do, feel how you’re feeling to say the thing that works, do you know what I mean? Like if they say ‘oh he’s with you’ they are just pulling something out of their Hallmark card, but again, it’s better than saying nothing, they are taking a chance.  Usually it’s ‘Can I sit with you? Can I bring you something? What I could I do for you?’ not telling you what to do. It’s ‘what can I do for you?’


ALI:        Yes. Can I listen? Do you need to be heard right now?


SARAH: Exactly.

ALI:        Can I -- do you want a hug? (inaudible 52:31)


SARAH: ‘I bet you haven’t eaten. Right. Can I bring you some food?’  It’s the humanness and we keep talking about you know, this spiritual movement while I’m so proud of this as femin--as spiritual feminist, we’ve gone a little too over – we had to over correct from a land where no one spoke of what was the need, to a land of everyone talking about what’s above, like oh just, they’ll quote you Rumi or they’ll go to some happy list place instead of being with the gore and the gut of your human situation.


ALI:        Totally. Absolutely and I think that if people just we’re willing to empathize a little bit more, there would be more of a uh, the lines of communication wouldn’t be as tough, or not even opened at all, you know, they would just , they would be more open to (inaudible 53:26) and I think there’s a lot of uh like some little lack of empathy and lack of willingness to look at these things, is a such a source of issue of all creating this like underworld, or like the all light, ‘all love and light, we’re manifesting our abundance’.


SARAH: Right.  Right. So you and I have had a couple of conversations about what we do, um, I guess I’m going to lead with this, is that, basically the work of…I still adore the word witch, for me, like, I get like the no label thing and I don’t-- you know, I’’s just not, it’s, it’s one piece of my womanhood, which is as vast as nature but it is an important piece for me. It’s my dharma here in a lot of ways because of who she was and I, you know, if I could be standing at a protest for her in the 1800’s I would, but this is the best that I could do, as far as the gender side, is talk about it.  So--but I, without knowing I was a baby witch growing up in high school--and elementary, middle and high school, is a lot of the people on the call, they didn’t have a word for it. An incredibly, sensitive, nature-attuned, maybe I talk to ghosts, definitely animals know I’m the safe place, you know, the whole, soul sensitive, repressed feminine. There wasn’t…so what I find now that’s it’s hot, you know, is the work has been so grueling and continues to be to feel this much. To be alive with the earth in such pain and so you know, I feel this sort of goth/cheerleader thing. I just re-watched “Heathers”, which is such an amazing movie.


ALI:        I have to watch that.


SARAH: It feels like --- oh you have to watch that.  I feel this, you know, now the cheerleaders are going ‘oh that’s a great quote. Can I take that from you?’ like (inaudible 55:35)


ALI:        Yeah


SARAH: The blood and pain, death for this deep work, you know, have you noticed like, any feelings of that. I’ve been feeling sort of…I’ve been feeling like people are going ‘oh you’re cool for a second. The witch is hot’, and I’m going ‘no, like this is so deep risen, this is lifetimes of repressed pain’.


ALI:        Oh my God, I can totally relate and for me it was the word “wild”. Like, the world “wild” has been tossed around so lightly and for me this like resonance, like you’re talking about with the witch archetype, which, by the way, I also like, fully connect to that as like ‘yup, I’ll label myself with that’. But with the wild woman, like, that archetype, I feel there is so much depth there that goes unnoticed and so I see the word “wild” is getting tossed around so lightly and circling back to some of what we were talking about earlier where I feel concerned about what women, what people perceive that to, like the labels that they perceive me to be a part of because I use the word “wild” in the way that I write and the way that I speak and my  message and everything, because—it just in relationship to other people talking around so lightly, it means so many things to everybody and so I see how “wild” is really hot right now, like how you’re saying with the witch right now. It’s so hot right now. Everybody is using the word, everybody is talking about it and everybody wants to be it and do that, but it just like, there’s a level of depth under that, that is so, so, so important to explore and what I’m really trying to advocate for is like, woman really like claiming this full out wild self-expression that is uninhibited, that is, they unleash that part of themselves. Like, I always picture it being this aspect within us that has been like, collared by the patriarchy, you know, that wildness that’s been like repressed and suppressed and there’s been a collar and leash put on it and it’s’ like…


SARAH: She’s been put in a zoo or (inaudible 57:30) yeah


ALI:        Yeah, totally, yeah. Like too scary, too offensive, too like, knows what she wants, knows what she’s going to do to get it, and like unleashing that part of ourselves and it’s not just this airy fairy like ‘oh I’m just like a wild woman’ you know,  no there’s like some like fucking depth to this that I’m talking about and it’s not just a hot term I’m trying to roll with right now and I’m not just trying to make some quotables that like are going to come and go real quick, it’s like I’m trying to help women to unleash this like, deep essence that I think lives in every single woman, and it’s just a matter of sort of sourcing it and then choosing to bringing it up to the surface.


SARAH: Right, which is what we’re doing is bringing every, all the know, the buried  feminine up, breaking that concrete tomb, but it’s funny, you know-- this the way your neck is killing you and you know, when I got…when I got; you’re like ‘yeah it’s hysterical’…when I got


ALI:        Nooooo. (laughs) I’m so good right now. I’m loving every (inaudible 58:42)


SARAH: (laughs) oh good. When I got, (inaudible 58:46) when I got sick with Lyme, the you know, the hysterical, we use the word funny when we just don’t have that word, but, I was, you know, what people think as the wild woman, I spent my whole day outside, running, in the sand, swimming, you know, running through the snow, whatever was in nature all of the time.  When I got sick I literally had to be in bed all the time, so my, my term, well I was like, ‘how am I still a wild woman?’ you know, ‘I have this course called “Waking the Wild..” and for me people are here are Goddess and still in this culture they think a woman in lingerie on Valentine’s Day, like, Aphrodite or something, and I’m going ‘no my girls, Kali and Durga and then of course Magdalene’ but like, you know, the women that were aligned with nature’s fierce powers and the tough mother and the volcanic fury of Kali, you know, there’s nothing sexy about them and this is my perfect segue that I wanted to get into with you, is um, so anyway, I had to go wild spiritually, I had to face my fears and say what I was dying to say and act as if you know, I don’t use this term lightly, this you know, act like a cancer patient. After seeing my mother sick for so long, you know, I remember all the promises she made if she was going to survive, and like, what we say when faced with death is how we truly want to live. Pay attention to what you say when you say ‘if I get out this alive’ you know, that’s the true life. So when I get really sick, it gets scary and then I’m also more bold facing death’s door, you know, even if it’s metaphorically, than I ever have been.  You know, I keep writing this poem in my head called “I have a secret. I’m going to die and so are you”. There’s…there’s…it keeps going like, and ‘the fact that I still care what you think about this poem is fucking insane’ you know what I mean?  The important things like, saying what I need to say while I was here. That was the important thing.  It didn’t matter if nobody listened. But, through this -- so we are talking about Kali and we’re talking Durga, and we’re talking about these unsexy feminine, even thought I think they are incredibly sexy, so a lot of women…I mean they are super hot…  a lot of women are shying from this term of feminine because it’s not sexy and that’s what I wanted to pick your heart about.


ALI:        I love that.


SARAH: Yeah so just when I say that, how does that make you feel as…


ALI:        Yeah, as in terms of people shying away from feminism because it’s not sexy.


SARAH: Right.


ALI:        Yeah…yeah, yeah, yeah. So I totally get that because I think I felt that way for a long time, and it was like…


SARAH: Right. Me too.


ALI:        It seemed like it would be undesirable for men to be like ‘I’m a feminist’ or claim that for myself and I think I was for a long time really wrapped up in the um…in the-- I think for a long time I was really wrapped up in the idea of how – I feel like feminine just has got…feminism has gotten a really bad rap in a lot of way and of course there are so many facets of it, but I was really stuck in the ways it’s gotten a bad rap and so I was all like getting into my designed feminist, you know, becoming so divine feminine, and I was like ‘oh, feminism is so not sexy, you know, I’m like such a luscious goddess and like, term it, and like giving myself the term you know, a feminist. That is so not a desirable to men or desirable in general and it sounds-- it’s offensive to people or whatever. That was sort of what I was living in. And then the more that I have sat with it and the more that I’ve gone deeper into this body of work, the more I’ve been like ‘fuck yeah, I’m a feminist’. Absolutely, absolutely, I’m so on board with that. I’ve actually found that the more I claim that as like part of who I am and I—and when, you know, there’s a lot of people I interact so many in day to day life that have a hard time understanding what I do, and like, don’t fully understand, I’m sure you get this all the time too.


SARAH: Like, what do you put on your tax returns?  Exactly.


ALI:        Totally. (laughs)


SARAH: (Inaudible 1:03:11)


ALI:        Yeah, like what is your 15 second elevator pitch, I’m like ‘I have no fucking idea’.


SARAH: Right.


ALI:        So it’s that sort of thing and I often refer back to feminism as a way to describe what I do because it’s become such a common term and I found the more that I claim that and the more that I speak from an embolden, embodied perspective, rather than from the perspective, like, you know, people are going to think it’s so frightening. I’ve gotten a lot of receptivity to it and a lot of people being like ‘That’s fucking awesome. We need more of that’, you know, like, we need women out there that are being you know, badass, like, claiming their feminism sort of vibe and I think that when there’s like fear wrapped up in it, that is more of what frightens people away and I think that it’s still like, embodiment factor, that, I mean – feminism is sexy to me. I don’t know how people like---I feel like it’s incredibly sexy and I’m totally on board with it.  Um, so I don’t know, I think that, I think that…


SARAH: Well it’s the quality.


ALI:        (inaudible 1:04:19) … that feminism is unsexy is like, is fading. I feel like it’s like…I feel like it’s more on the rise in terms of, um, it coming from such an embodied perspective if that makes sense.


SARAH: Yeah, I mean, I was terrified of it growing up because I was programmed to be like ‘how I can be attractive to men’ period, that was going to be my success as a woman and um, you know, I mean I’m pretty open about it, but I’ve been celibate for a long…like almost a year now, because, a little over a year, because men, the men that I was seeing couldn’t see me in my fullness and couldn’t handle the full raw, like, ‘we demand equality’ part of me. Um and it still needed me to be subservient in the areas that, I mean to be totally honest, like, I was so -- this is just like, you know, I keep seeing these covens in person, like ‘we can have a Q&A in a circle afterwards’, but to be totally honest like, um you know, I’m---I was so weak in my main relationship that I, as I tend to do because I’m an extreme person, I over-corrected and became so masculine, you know, like, I…because I couldn’t tie my fucking shoes without him, you know, and so, now, like, I don’t know what to do with all this armor and you know, I – in my dreams, I, since I am a little kid, I’m armored on a horse leading troops.  (inaudible 1:06:04)


ALI:        Yeah


SARAH: I’m sitting saddled on an exercise ball like it’s a horse right now while I’m talking to you.  I’m…I’m most comfortable leading the troops.  I don’t know how to surrender yet and I don’t know how to marry the life of a movement leader, which I do love, with you know, the subservient woman in bed that, you know, I’m sure I’m using the terms wrong, but I think you know what I mean, is like, my masculine/feminine is kind of always in war and like, neither all one or all the other but I haven’t really found them yet.


ALI:        Yeah.  Yeah. Totally I hear that, for sure.  And I think that…I think it is frightening to a lot of people in general whether it’s men or women, um, that like, that embodiment of feminism of being a feminist of femininity, you know, it can be really frightening and catch a lot of people off guard, so, so it’s challening to find somebody that could fully meet you in that, especially intimately and romantically and (inaudible 1:07:15) cuz that’s—I see like even in people who really strive to meet that and fully embrace a woman who is living that way, I still see parts of patriarchy that’s still wrapped up there, so as much as they want to, there’s still things that like, it’s still a trigger for them in some ways where she isn’t subservient and where she isn’t like, even her in her full wildness is a trigger sometimes, but my (inaudible 1:07:48) a lot of people and I think that um, yeah like, people can even have the intent and the desire to fully embrace a woman in her-- in her feminine power and as a feminist or whatever you want to spin it, but there’s still that, that fearfulness around the fully seeing her in that-- has been what I’ve been noticing…




ALI:        I’ve been noticing the subtleties around that, that aren’t really bad. They aren’t always obvious and I’ve noticed being almost like, right under the current a little bit and go unseen in certain relationships, and then I’ll see then the closer I look, the more I’m like ‘oh there’s some fear around like fully embracing me in my wild feminine right now’, and…and, um yeah, I still don’t have to navigate at this point.


SARAH: Right and I mean I’ve talked about this a while ago, maybe on the second call or third call with Catherine Hummel. Um, that the great thing that we need to remember---you know, I…this whole having you know, people uh kind of with you in the movement, you know, like readers and you know, all the things the women on this call are going to start to accumulate, the attention, it’s still just between us and God or just between us and the angels and when you take the good, when you take too much of the good to head you’re going to have to take the bad to head, so if you go ‘that person just told me that I was the second coming of the you know, they think I’m the goddess incarnate’ um, so that means if you believe that, you have believe if the person tells that you that you are the biggest whore, bitch, whatever, I mean…my --I used to get so (inaudible 1:09:34) down when I started out so (inaudible 1:09:37) Oh my God.


ALI:        Totally.


SARAH: Did you get it?


ALI:        Oh yeah, definitely and more so I get like, in person. Like I’ve gotten it more…


SARAH: Really?


ALI:        Yeah, and not from somebody in terms of my work. It’s not like with my work. It’s not where like somebody knows my work and face to face ‘you suck, you whore bitch’ or whatever. It’s more like when I am showing up fully in my wild feminine and often times is when I’m embodying that Kali/Durga, you know, like, setting boundaries and being fierce and just defending myself and not like, from a like, I’m being defensive but like I’m protecting myself and taking care of myself.  I get that ‘you’re a bitch’ ‘you’re a whore’ you know “you slut’ or like that derogatory response when I’m just being, I’m just protecting my boundaries and saying ‘no I don’t want that’ or ‘no I don’t want to do that’ or ‘that’s not okay with me’ and not in a, in a aggressive way, it’s just me being in my, you know, in my Kali in my Durga in my like, ‘no you can’t do this  with me’ and that is in response to that that I often get a lot of that like, shaming and that like, projected just intensity and aggression from people because it, it like, they don’t know what to do with somebody who is so grounded in their uh…in their boundaries or in their wants and their desires or what’s not okay with them.


SARAH: So even when you’re walking your talk and being truth (inaudible 1:11:12)


ALI:        (Inaudible 1:11:12)


SARAH: It’s one thing to say it…


ALI:        Yeah.


SARAH: Yes, but you’re actually going ‘no here is my boundary and not just talking about it -- I’m showing it to you’


ALI:        Yes. That’s exactly when. Yup.


SARAH: Well, anyway, so I was, so I do this new thing when I wake up in the morning, you know, I forget that there’s any audience and I tell myself that I actually had them and I lost them all and now who am I? You know, like, that first girl was terrified of like, they’re all going to leave or they’re all going to find out that once, you know, a few years ago I slept with a man I shouldn’t have and they’re going to call me a whore, or whatever it is…


ALI:        Totally.


SARAH: All the witch hunting comes back, you know, and um – you know, and that’s when I just turned to Magdalene with the whore stuff and like, you know, ‘I used my body as desire and I got called a whore--Mother, help me’ and she’s you know, nobody better to go to with that sort of unconditional love for the feminine whose body was told it was dirty, which is why, you know,  the Catholic Church, you know, the Mother didn’t have sex to have a baby, you know, it’s like…you know, that was the woman we had to revere that never used her body…ever.  And then there’s Magdalene who sat in circle and taught Jesus Christ how to sit in circle and align with the moon and align with the earth and made, you know, by all accounts, such things, you know, I mean, really? (laughs)


ALI:        Yeah. Yeah.


SARAH: So that’s what I do in the morning when I’m, you know, when the pressures of this priestesshood, you know, they get too much, you  know, I’m so…it’s made me so…I was hard on myself already, I mean, I really was…


ALI:        Yeah.  Totally.


SARAH: So to—but I also --I don’t want it to get in the middle of putting my voice out there, this fear of what people will say.  I mean I don’t want to say it was better when nobody listened, but it was almost trickier.


ALI:        Yeah, um hmm.  Absolutely, absolutely.  I totally know what you mean. Yeah, I’ve found that …

I mean comes with the territory the more eyes and ears on what you’re doing the more judgment that comes with it…and


SARAH: Right.


ALI:        It’s tricky to not be create that and it’s not easy and it’s a lot of pressure to carry day to day, it’s a lot of pressure and I feel that-- and I think I was talking about it a little bit earlier but, in terms off like how I live my life, I’m almost analytical through those eyes of the people who are judging sometimes and I’ll catch myself and I’m judging myself and the how I’m conducting my day to day because I’m, I’m thinking like, ‘oh what will they say if they knew I was doing this’, you know, and like ‘what would they think if they knew I experienced this and went through this and handled this in this way’ and ‘oh my God I’m not perfect’, you know, and ‘what if I’m not living into their ideal of me’ and it’s just like a spiral, and extre--like a pressure cooker to get lost in sometimes.


SARAH: There’s two things I love about judgment. One --the best thing about these road trips is just like, you and your mind, you know. You get to witness it. But, you know, today I noticed myself judging someone and whenever I do, because I’m so human, and I--the witness in me pulled back and goes ‘where did you get that judgment from?’ and it was about, it was, it was like, some of the way somebody dressed or something and I was like, and I was like ‘I don’t know somebody else gave that to me’, that woman should dress this way, you know, and then it’s like the next judgment about, you  know, something someone said, and it’s like, ‘where did I get that judgment from’, it’s just like a while ago when I realized oh my God, I’m breaking a rule by being in my jammies at 3 p.m., like, you know, watching Family Guy, like a misogynist fuck television show, you know, like, and it’s like wait… I don’t care who gave you this rule that you’re not allowed to be this, and I was like…somebody so long ago, or some…you know, and it’s like really important.  And the other thing I love about judgment is that Matt Kahn says the person that’s judging me needs the most…like, needs the most love or the biggest hug from me.  Someone who is judging is judging themselves so severely, so it’s like, when I’m high diving and feeling good, everybody on the internet is winning.  I’m like, ‘you guys are all great – you guys are all amazing --everyone in my life is amazing’.  When I’m being an asshole to myself, I’m definitely going to be like ‘That person sucks—that person sucks’ so I’m really know they are coming from such a low vibration, I don’t have time. I don’t have time...I mean like, do you have time to go on other people’s page and be like ‘well I really oppose this post because…’ it’s like (inaudible 1:16:15)


ALI:        I barely have time to keep up with all my own pages, I’m like ‘I can’t even keep up with everything that’s happening’ I hardly have time to scroll through somebody’s Instagram or Facebook.


SARAH: …and send them something negative.


ALI:        Yeah…never.  ‘Hey fatty’ or something, I mean like, who (inaudible 1:16:36) Completely. I honestly have such a hard time to that action and that mind-set because I just can’t picture like, I, I , I can’t…I can’t even…I don’t know.


SARAH: Totally. I’m just glad we talked about this because I take my haters so personally, but if they’re hating me, they must be full of hate. And so…


ALI:        Totally. Absolutely.


SARAH: And so there’s some...their system is dying right now…like hate is a cancer


ALI:        Yeah, it’s like they’re trying to infect somebody else with the hatred and the anger and the upset and I totally (inaudible 1:17:15) that where people that have attacked me and like latched on.  I’ve become like the thing that they, like they’re…they are like possessed with like bringing me down, you know and it’s like, these perpetual repetitive actions that are taken to attempt to pull me down, and it feels like that, like that sort of parasitic sense of ‘I want you down here with me, come down here’ you know ‘I’m going to attack you in these ways’, and it’s like, yeah…it’s really…


SARAH: ‘I’m suffering so you have to suffer too’.


ALI:        Yeah. Totally.


SARAH: Yeah. Um, you know, when I think about our tax returns, which I push mine off and I just deal with it next month, but when I think about them, you know, basically what you’re doing is being yourself for a living, which is so, I would be so angry about you if I was stuck with a job I didn’t love. I would hate you now.


ALI:        Oh yeah.  Absolutely.


SARAH: I mean (laughs)


ALI:        Because it’s like we represent these expressed parts of humanity that everybody wants, I believe, everybody wants to feel and I believe everybody wants to feel expressed and when somebody doesn’t feel expressed, it’s going to come out in that toxic form of like ‘I’m going to pull you down with me because I’m unhappy with my life’ you know, so they want to latch on to something and when somebody is embodied and they are expressing themselves in their full spectrum…like I’m not fucking --I’ll be the first person to raise my hand and be like “yup, I’m not perfect, right over here…me, totally not perfect over here’.  And but like, anybody who’s expressing their full range of mess and humanity, it, it’s, it’s a trigger for people so they react to it and that’s where like the trolling and parasitic energy can come from and just like you said, like, if I was working a 9 to 5 that I totally hated I probably would troll some people’s page day to day to give me some sense of purpose, you know, when I’m not being purposeful in the work that I’m doing.


SARAH: Right.  Right.  It brings me back to like, non-internet life, when somebody’s driving us crazy, it’s always something about us or why somebody, you know.  I mean, I’m like ‘oh I’m mad at her because she’s messy’, that’s because my room looks like World War III, you know.  It’s like…


ALI:        (laughs) Totally.


SARAH: Just cuz I hate that thing about me that’s going on right now, or, you know, she’s too--or when somebody reminds you of a phase you just grown out of that was torturing you, like if someone’s like super weepy and weak and like they’re hysterical, like, you know, when their 2nd chakra is just so out of whack, and it’s just like everything makes them cry from the sunlight to like you know, and (inaudible 1:20:05) ‘oh my God, she’s driving me crazy’ and that’s what I was just there doing it and then just needed a break from it or whatever…


ALI:        Totally.  Totally. Yeah. I completely get…I remember when I like was afraid to dance and like move my body, whenever I’d see women who could just dance and she was just like in it…


SARAH: You hated her.


ALI:        …and fully like flung into the experience of dance, I would hate them. I’d be like, oh there’s like—she’s so like—never.  I’d go into this, like, judgmental loop of like making some story up about her, when it was just I was…(Inaudible 1:20:36)


SARAH: Always. Ali, here is…it was “who does she think she is?”


ALI:        Yes!! Yes!! Exactly. Who does she think she is to dance her ass off and look sexy and awesome, like. Who does she think she is? (laughs)


SARAH: Right and like every time I write a post I think someone’s going “who the fuck does this girl  think she is” and guess what the worse thing is, that’s me. That’s me saying that.


ALI:        Yeah. Exactly. Exactly.


SARAH: Otherwise it wouldn’t exist.  I wouldn’t even…be aware of anybody thinking that cuz I wouldn’t even care, but the most, you know, the weakest woman in the room cares what everybody thinks.  The most powerful woman in the room doesn’t give a shit and that’s wild. That’s free.


ALI:        Yes, yes.


SARAH: So how do we get there?


ALI:        Yeah, I’m so on board with that. That resonates, the way you just put that into words, completely resonates and so aligns with my experience on my progression of like, embodiment, you know, and becoming a more embodied woman, because when I was at the place of non-embodiment and I was not comfortable with myself and didn’t like myself and didn’t know who I was and was not expressing myself, I was judging every woman and it was constantly like, what’s wrong with her, like, who does she think she is for doing that, she’s too sexual, she’s too loud, she’s talks too much, like all this stuff and it’s gotten to the point now where like, I don’t give a fuck what anybody’s doing. Like how I see you. I see a girl like, twerking on the dance floor, I’m like ‘yeah babe’ like ‘do your thing’, you know and I celebrate women who are like, in their full expression because that’s what somebody’s---when a woman’s doing like, you know, she’s fully like giving herself to whatever the experience is, that’s like, her like living her expression and now I feel just so celebratory and it’s like, instead of judging it, even if I feel like some trigger around it, it inspires me now, because I’m like I want to get to that level of expression in “x place” and I’m not there yet, you know, or I’m not letting myself experience the full range there and this woman is.  Like, cool, I’m going like take her cue.


SARAH: Right.  Right.  So, I have to do a circle in Omaha tomorrow night, and you know, it’s all about what is the true, you know, what’s a wild woman, and for me you know, I think we’re starting to nail it because when I think about what the feminine has been, you know, like, the wild feminine has been raped, polluted, caged, hunted down to non-existent or dwindling species or put in a zoo, you know, to be looked at and not free. It hasn’t been free. So it’s going terrify even us.


ALI:        Yeah totally. Absolutely. Totally.  Cuz then when we get into freer levels of expression of ourselves it can be pretty fightening where it’s like ‘oh man what am I going to let them see me in next’ you know, and…


SARAH: Right. Right.


ALI:        You never know what’s going to come next, like, what you’re going to be faced with when you’re—when a person is expressing themselves in that way.


SARAH: I remember you know talking about with a woman recently and we were talking about how we can see the patriarchy clinging on and a lot of men in power being terrified and I was like ‘what about the way we feel it inside of us?’ like, the ways that we still hold on to, that aren’t ours and that don’t really, you know that we’re still into like, that we still allow ourselves to judge and to gossip and to say ‘she should be doing this’, ‘I should/shouldn’t do this’, that’s how patriarchy inside of us going, we need order and rules, like, because the feminine is chaos and before everything comes back into balance, the feminine is going to take over before things come back into balance.  And it’s terrifying. Yeah.


ALI:        Mm hmm. Completely.  Absolutely.


SARAH: So, how---let’s wind down here a little bit-- How, if we just wanted to like, you know, cocktail hour talk, how do we re-wild ourselves.  How do you help women to re-wild?


ALI:        Mmmmm.  I think that…


SARAH: What is this really? (laughs)


ALI:        (Laughs) Totally.  I think that, to me, like, rewilding like coming into that like communion with our wildness and activating our sense of wildness is really like allowing ourselves to feel and express in the full spectrum. If I had to summarize it, I think it would be really allowing, like, finding all the areas of ourselves that have been dormant, that have been put to sleep, that have been repressed, that we have allowed to be suppressed by society--all those pieces engrained into the light and bringing them out into expression and letting ourselves feel them and experience those parts.  They’re often the parts of ourselves that are taboo by society, you know, like our sexuality, like, the most human parts of ourselves that are so real and so a part of everyone, and letting those run free, you know, and letting those parts of ourselves come through and be experienced and share with the world.  I think that’s really like, awakening that wildness in ourselves and I – when I work with women it’s often aiming to help them to bring those dormant parts of themselves back to the surface that like, I can see light in there, you know, I can see that…I can see there’s such qualities like waiting to blossom or like I can see their intuition is like peaking but they are just not listening fully or they, you know, there’s like whatever that part of themselves it is, that is waiting to come out and wanting to come out and is part of their authentic nature, but they’re holding it back in some way. Like, I, I try to give women permission to…it’s a lot of like permission giving, I feel like to let them bring out those parts of themselves that are so human and so real and like I said, so a part of everyone, but in one way or another along their journey, they were told that wasn’t okay or that wasn’t healthy for them to do that, or they shouldn’t be too loud or they shouldn’t be too communicative, or they should be more submissive or whatever it is.  And yeah, letting that be, that, like be expressed in that wild way where it’s uninhibited and it’s not repressed or held back and it’s just unleashed for the world to experience.


SARAH: I have to go back to, you know, we should pay more attention after you told that story about,  ‘I hated a woman who could dance’.  Let’s ask the feminine, you know, our work is always what’s the wound of the feminine and to pay attention to the collective wounds and then heal them on an individual level, but we still have in the collective feminine, jealous, back stabbing, witch hunting, you know, as they say the patriarchy doesn’t have to do anything to keep us down because we are all keeping each other, so they really don’t have to do anything.


ALI:        Exactly.


SARAH: Because we’re standing here going, how dare she dance, how dare she write a book, how dare she sleep with somebody when she’s still not even divorced yet, whatever it is, how dare she take her kids to Europe, how dare she wear a mini skirt at 42 – we’re like terrible to each other. So I think we should really pay attention to where that’s coming from, you know – I get jealous when people put out books.  Guess what Sarah that means you want to put a book out.  I get jealous when people have moved on a healed and are dating again. Guess what Sarah, you want to move on and date again. So like just keep mirroring back in that’s (inaudible 1:29:02)


ALI:        Yeah, continue to look deeply within ourselves where that piece is living.  Another one for me that I’ll put out on the line, I was really jealous of women that were, that appeared to be fully grounded in their sexuality.  A woman that was very expressive, like, in like that you know, a woman that was like sexy and she was like loved her sexuality, expressed it freely, was in healthy relationship with it. That used to trigger the shit out of me because I wasn’t in a healthy relationship with my sexuality.  I was allowing myself to remain in this level of repression and non-engagement with my sexuality that I, it triggered me anytime I saw a woman like that, even if she was just moderately sexy, it would still trigger me because like, and I don’t mean just sexy, I mean like it like, down with her sexiness, like she knew, like she was owning it.  And it would trigger me because I wanted that for myself and I could feel the shadow there for me.  I didn’t at first but eventually I was like, oh there’s a huge fucking shadow there for me that needs my attention. I need to look at this. Why am I being so triggered by woman who are owning their sexy and who are you know, totally grounded and expressed with their sexuality? Why am I getting so annoyed and put off by them?  And I would make up stories about why they were like that and why I was so righteous in my resentment or triggers towards them and then one day I just got really real with myself and was like, okay you got a lot of fucking work to do here. And ultimately that’s what it continued to come down when jealous and triggers and resentment like that comes up towards often, like strangers, who are not doing anything wrong.


SARAH: Yeah I mean the old line I used to give about that was like, you know, jealousy, you know --transform jealousy into inspiration, it’s like I’m being inspired but seeing now, I think that resentment, but you’ve helped me go deeper with this, I think that resentment is the ego defending a wound.


ALI:         Yes…yes.


SARAH: I don’t feel---my jealousy --- my sexuality used to get into so much trouble that I shamed it. I’ve shamed it my whole life for you know, dancing one time, someone told me I was a terrible dancer in 8th grade and it hurt, you know, in front of everybody. So take a moment with your shit, you know, before putting it on her.


ALI:        Yeah…Totally.    


SARAH: Once again where is this coming from, you know.


ALI:        Yes.


SARAH: We used to just get sick, our conversations didn’t start, you know, things always come full circle in feminine conversation but you know, when we get sick or hurt our neck, we just hurt our neck and you know, in the old life.  Now it’s like – wait a second, you know, that’s what being a witch opened up for me is endless stories of ‘wait what’s really going on here’ – I’m not just sitting at a table, what’s the story of the table, why does this table exist, you know, who’s loved it and sat at it, and like, you know, it’s like, oh my neck, like, well I have been overdoing it and it does mean it’s coming from a place of expression, that helps you heal it – that, that what’s beneath the surface of everything, is the world we’re in now.


ALI:        Totally.


SARAH: On the surface is the neck injury, what’s beneath that?


ALI:        Exactly, exactly.  And I can feel there’s that part of me sometimes that still wants to turn a blind eye towards going there, because intuitively I knew from the moment that it happened, what was going on. The same day that it happened was the same day that I was talking with a bunch of girlfriends about these conversations that I needed to have in some relationships and then I injure myself and then I’m of course, you know, like, as a witch, I’m like – okay I’m going to look deeper into this; what’s really under the surface; what’s going on there? And it just confirms what my intuition was and it’s like really a matter of engaging what’s below the surface so that the real healing can come and it doesn’t have to be another injury or another getting sick or another fault line that happens like, a fault line that gets hit and then you’re like, even deeper into whatever the muck is, you know, it’s like let’s clear this now and get it straightened out (laughs) while the first opportunity is happening that we’re getting faced with.


SARAH: Do you have any tips for women, like, to-- just off the cusp, for listening to their intuition if they never done it before or if it’s a rusty instrument?


ALI:        Yeah…um – I always – I feel like I always say to like, follow the first nudge, like in my experience I often get that first nudge and sometimes it’s really quiet, sometimes it’s really loud, it comes in various forms, and I think that it is quieter when I am really not wanting to accept the reality of what it is. So I’ll speak from experience.  Today, I you know, with my neck injury, I’ve had this thing that needed to be dealt with in some relationships and some conversations that needed to be had, and I had just a minor nudge of like, maybe you should reach out, maybe you should do this, maybe you should do that. But it wasn’t super strong because I’m so nervous and like, feeling this sense of like, anxiety about reaching out and so I repress it and so I felt that first nudge and then there was this like – my friend said something that was like ‘oh maybe I should do that’ and then I hurt my neck and then I still hadn’t done anything yet.  And then I had a conversation with another friend last night and it was the same thing, being like, maybe you should do that and so it’s just like, it often starts as this either small thing if it’s something like is in indicated like, if it’s pulling me in a direction that’s uncomfortable is what I’m trying to get at I think. When it’s intuition that is brining me towards something that is uncomfortable but it ultimately is going to serve as greater healing and greater expansion and expression, it might be a smaller nudge but I find that – the more I stay open and receptive I can see it and even if I don’t follow it right away I notice that it’s there and then you know, if it’s something that is more, not quite so uncomfortable more exciting maybe, I feel like it comes through ore strongly and it’s just that first nudge, like, it’s that first nudge and it’s what comes through before my mind, my ego start coming in and wanting to judge it and raise and (??? @ 1:36:05) it give me some reason why it’s not correct because it’s after that first nudge that my monkey mind comes in and starts like, you know, messing around with it and being like, ‘oh what if it’s this way’, ‘maybe they didn’t mean it that way’, or ‘maybe that isn’t actually what happened’ or ‘maybe if I had done it this way’, you know, it’s like, ‘maybe I shouldn’t go that route’, it’s like the first nudge is so often what I feel, so I always tell women go with the first nudge and follow that and at least explore what’s there and see what’s there for you before you writing it off as something to not be listened to.


SARAH: So, I love that because for me another component of wild, you can tell I’m like getting my talk together for tomorrow and you’re the perfect time, I didn’t – I didn’t even realize, like, this has been so perfect tonight and I’m going to let you go really soon, and I’m just – it’s just you know, I’ve been over-planning my whole summer and when I just let go tonight, like, honestly, I have enjoyed this so immensely…


ALI:        Me too.


SARAH: …and I’m just really in awe what the Universe can do when you let go, you know.  I should really try to get more (inaudible 1:3:18-19) (laughs) but so you know for me also is honing in on that animal instinct, like, I could watch my dog smell something from 2, you know, 20 miles away.  I can watch her predict a storm six hours away, like, I’m like, oh that’s the secret to life is tuning into your intuition; you don’t need to do anything else because you’re hearing your higher self, which is God.  You’re always going to be living your authentic right life if you’re in tune with your intuition and it’s just amazing for that first nudge.  I mean my dog doesn’t go ‘hmmm, I’m going to wait for the second sign of danger’. She’s fucking out of there man, you know? (laughs)


ALI:        (laughs) Totally.


SARAH: And she’s always right, you know, it’s like, there’s some joke I think it’s like Ricky Gervais, he’s like ‘I don’t trust anybody that doesn’t like dogs, but if my dog doesn’t trust anyone …


ALI:        Yes. I love that! (inaudible 1:38:14)


SARAH: Yeah. I’m always like, woah you just saw their soul and we’re out of here.  She’s like-- That’s the level of intuition I’m trying to get to is my dog, you know.


ALI:        Yes. I absolutely. I can so echo that. I watch my dog do the same thing, or like, following the scent is another often metaphor too, where you’re like, they’re on a scent, they’re following it, they aren’t questioning what they are smelling and what they’re seeing, you know, they’re like going with it, and we catch the scent of what we’re supposed to be guided towards and what we want to be guided toward, and I think that when we let the mind get in the way instead of just following our heart and intuition and our soul calling us in that direction, that’s where  the going askew starts to happen because I think that we are animals, we are human animals and we can follow that scent too if we allow ourselves to become attuned to that, that great experience, rather than judging it and being like ‘oh I wouldn’t know’, you know or thinking or judging that we don’t have our intuition on point or that we need to connect to our intuition more, you know.  It’s there, it’s just waiting for us to just be – just let it guide us, you know, and animals are such a perfect example of that where they just are following, you know, they’re just following.


SARAH: It’s so, um, it’s so, it’s so brilliant because a lot of times life will be trying to lead us in a direction that makes no sense because we have never gone there before, so we’re like, ‘no, no, how can I be getting signs about Australia; that’s crazy I’ve never been there before’, and it’s like that’s exactly why, you stupid idiot.  And then, um, but like Jackie Becker, um was a—she talked on call 5 and she’s in this – you know,  she…she kind of pulled a you but the morning of ‘I just don’t think I could do this’ and like I’m not a pushy person but like I can tell when somebody’s just like ‘can you hold my hand’ and I’m like yeah (inaudible 1:40:18) (laughs), but um, she was like, you have to ---when I lost my joy and got really sick because that’s how Lyme’s manifest as joy loss, and a mill -- you know, everyone has a theory, but for me, and she’s like, why don’t you stay on this the scent of your joy like a bloodhound, and I was like oh my God.  That changed everything. You know, it was like when you go the – it was like when you go to a Harriet Tubman exhibition and they are talking about how these slaves found their way you know, through the dark just by the north star. You know, what’s your fucking north star, like, drop everything to save your life, you know.  I loved that. I always picture being a bloodhound being like ‘nope this isn’t my joy’. (laughs) (inaudible 1:41:05) you know.


ALI:        Completely. Oh I love that so much. I connect to that so deeply. I feel like that’s what my summer has been this like shedding and being like I’m going to track my joy and my pleasures so whole heartedly that like I’m on that trail, I’m on the scent of joy and pleasure and I’m going to seek it out at every turn instead of trying to like keep myself from it because I judge things about it (laughs) you know, or because I think I’m not deserving of it or whatever the story is.


SARAH: Like, who are you to feel joy, I mean, I think about, yeah, I think about going to Australia for the whole month of February, and I’m like ‘But I shouldn’t’ -- Says who? I mean, why do we put our joy off, I don’t – (Inaudible1:41:49 – 1:41:52)


ALI:        (laughs)


SARAH: So um, what you said tonight because we were both feeling a little out of whack is you know, maybe by coming together and talking, you know, we can make one person out there feel a little less lonely too, and I think that’s why we take these risks.  I know you’re a fan of Frida Kahlo as well and we talk about her quote last time, you know, and so even though it’s hard and it get harder and harder some days, why do you think  you keep doing it?


ALI:        Mmmmmm. There’s…there’s such a fierce level of dedication to…like the one person that I see have a transition or the one word of the one line or the one like, opportunity I get to witness a woman, like just having a breakthrough or having that moment of like ‘oh my God’ is so fucking worth it, every single time, that no matter the like, pressures of the priestess, like, the haters, the like, fucking burn out, the getting obliterated on the floor in tears, the moments when I can witness a woman having that transformation or that opening to herself or that in myself too on both sides whether it’s like watching another woman have that experience or if in myself, on my spiritual path, I have that breakthrough, you know, and that like “oh…right…that…yes”, those moments are worth it, every single time. And so there’s a lot of in between where I question and it’s like ‘why the fuck am I doing this, this is so hard’ like ‘why am I dedicated to feeling, why am I doing this work’ and it’s those moments that like, fuel me.


SARAH: For some reason these nights remind me of you know, I’ve dabbled, I sometimes I still love to go to AA meetings just for the humanness of people sitting and the anonymity of humans sitting around and telling their story, and there’s always one line that just, I can’t believe another human has felt exactly the way I did and then suddenly all the walls of isolation shatter and I go back (inaudible 1:44:24) you know, and it’s for me, it’s no longer about the drinking – I’m not – I don’t, no I’m not like --- I don’t like crave alcohol, I don’t have a –it’s the…I don’t know where I am with substance and my relationship with substance changes but like it does with everything, but it’s the needing – it’s just started to remind me one thing will be said that will de-isolate someone else and they will say ‘I’m really not alone’, and that’s the word.


ALI:        Exactly, that is exactly how I feel.  If I can say one thing or support one person even if it’s for a millisecond and they feel some sense of relief, like that is it, you know.


SARAH: Yeah. (inaudible 1:45:11)


ALI:        Yeah, you worded it perfectly.


SARAH: So imperfectly, so (audible 1:45:20) every time I ask someone what perfect is they’re always stumped so like, I don’t…I know. So I’m like we’re all chasing an illusion.


ALI:        Oh yeah, completely. (inaudible 1:45:34) imperfect


SARAH: So um, I asked to everyone and have forgotten twice and I have to hound the people, but how is or how can the feminine heal the world? How do you see the feminine showing up as a healing agent on the planet?


ALI:        I really see it as women embodying their wild, like, I – there’s just such a sense of like, fierce power behind the woman when like she has chosen the path of allowing her wild self-expression to come through and just like fully uninhibitedly expressing that and I see it in women that whether they realize they are doing or not, some women are doing it and they’re not necessarily ‘I’m choosing to like fully express myself and like be embodied’, um, but I think that women when they are like that is a force for change and that’s when the healing really begins because they begin to --- they create healing interactions with other humans on a regular basis and it’s like the day to day, human to human, like, interactions that like change a person and it’s an invitation when I, like, I know for me it’s an invitation to step into that part of myself when I see a woman doing that and you know, the feminine is so rising you know, like, we’re doing the is work for a reason a I think that when a woman is in her, her wild self-expression, she’s embodied, she’s loving herself, that invites all the women around her in her fear and beyond that because the ripple effect, you know it invites them all to experience the same thing of themselves and then it keeps rippling out and then it’s just brings a healing to the feminine as a whole entity as a result.


SARAH: Beautiful. Wholeness keeps coming up with the feminine that she makes us whole, you know.  So Ali, can people work with you or how can people work with you in the future and then?


ALI:        Totally, so there’s 2 ways to work with me currently.  I do one-on-one wild woman sessions, I call them, where you know, we can --- I do skype calls or phone calls and I can do one—time sessions or I have longer programs and they’re just a way to work intimately, it’s sort of like a call to action where if a woman wants that like, very personal like, somebody at their back, like hand on the back, like I got you, I’m in this with you, sort of experience, to help them sort of get to that place, of like I’m bringing it all to the surface, I’m letting my wild woman out to really run free now.  I offer those one-on-one sessions and then I also have …


Sarah:   Can I interrupt you right there?


ALI:        Oh yeah, yeah, yeah.


SARAH: We have somebody in the Coven that worked with you and you completely--you did a year of it together and you like, transformed her inside out and um, so she’s just…I was listening to her talk about you and it really is – it sounds so supportive and amazing, so, just wanted to let you know –


ALI:        Thank you for that.


SARAH: I never plugged anybody before but I hear this shit really works.


ALI:        (Laughs) Thank you for that. I so appreciate that and I know who you are talking to – talking about. It’s like honestly one of my favorite things to work with women one on one, because it just is like such an intimate journey and I—the transformation I have witnessed in women when they choose to step into that path and – sometimes these things like, require a sense of support and somebody, like, the accountability of somebody being there being like ‘hey I’m hearing you, I’m here witnessing you’.  That is what it, like, that -- that piece is sometimes all it takes to really like, fully engage that part of ourselves.  So yeah, I do one on one sessions and programs like that and then I – I have an online group that is a monthly membership group and its on Facebook and it’s private and so it’s for the women that pay to enter only and it’s, I call it “Wild Feminine Unleashed - The Virtual Temple of Sisterhood’ so it’s really an online virtual sisterhood experience.  I created that because I know so many women don’t have those full on sisterhood supportive, like, unconditional, got your back, you know, friendships in their day to day lives So I was envisioning how can I create this virtually so that women anywhere like there’s women like Europe, there’s women from Australia, there’s women from the UK, you know, anywhere, can all be a part of something and still connected to this collective of women that want to show up to support and be supported and honestly, are all women who want to show up to life fully, like, really fucking engage life.  And so I have the online group. We have weekly calls together to connect and just share about what’s moving for us and then we have guest mentors that come on the line and we’re once a month and Sarah has been one of them, she’s actually our inaugural guest mentor which is really special.  I started the group about almost a year ago and I have …




ALI:        Yeah and then there’s are a bunch of other like, little perks that come along with it. We are going to be having weekly tarot readings, um, and yeah, there’s a whole like array of things that are a part of it, but the main thing is just having this like, tribe of women that are all committed to really rewriting the script of what female friendships look like and what connecting in sisterhood looks like so that it’s from a place of that unconditional love and support and it means like, no one really knows each other in the flesh.  We had our first retreat this summer so some of us got to meet in person, but ultimately no one really knows each other super well, but it’s – we’re all united on the same front of wanting to unleash our wildness in like, through the lens of sisterhood, and like, women supporting women in their wild self-expression.  So, um, that’s all at my website,, and if you click the ‘work with me’ drop down it will show all the options of how we can hang out, so, yeah.


SARAH: Well, if this was any indication it’s a real pleasure to hang out with you on there and the women there, um, and I just, you know, you showed up when you were broken and vulnerable and I just want to send so much love and gratitude for that and I, you know, giving me permission to keep doing that, and to, I mean, you were just amazing and I just want to honor you and thank you for your time and you didn’t have to but you did and it was a total gift to me. Thank you Ali and to the women on the call.


ALI:        Thank you so much Sarah. I just want to give you a huge thank you and hug through the phone line, because honestly, this was the perfect medicine that I needed right now, was to call you and like be our, be called by you like, in my absolute brokenness like, literally on the floor broken, and just to feel that hand on my back, like we got this, I got you, and the opportunity to share and talk with you is just an honor, so thank you.  And thank you all you beautiful women on the call.


SARAH: You know you picked up the phone when I called and you didn’t have to. You could have just been like ‘I told her how I felt, done’, you know, and that was a lesson to me of like, when somebody is reaching out like, and you need it, like, receive, you know, like – You know you did the thing I do, which was like  ‘thank you for talking to me when I’m like this’, and it’s like there’s no better time to talk, in fact maybe it’s the only time to really talk, you know.


ALI:        Yes, yes.  Totally.


SARAH: So um, yeah, I’m looking forward to much more of it and thank you honey and I hope you heal and  feel all of our love and healing going to your neck and I love you. Thank you. Have a wonderful night.


ALI:        Thank you so much. You have a beautiful night. Good night women. Thank you all. MUAH!!!




ALI:        Bye.