ABOUT HARMONY. Divine Harmony is an astrologer, writer and teacher with her Masters in Depth Psychology.  She is dedicated to communicating with one’s Higher Self by way of the celestial realms, intuition and inspiration. Just as the microcosm is contained in the macrocosm and vice versa- Divine Harmony believes that the stars and planets have connections to the people, places and things that inhabit planet earth, and there is a way to find the pattern of communication and connection by divining the stars. In addition, she is an activist for the Soul and writes inspired articles on spirituality, sacred Union, and the evolution of consciousness. She is available for astrology readings, workshops, and lectures, and is in the midst of writing a book on the Dark Feminine. - See more at:

PART II. Kelly Morris.

ABOUT KELLY. In the wake one America's greatest tragedies, 9/11, Kelly Morris was chosen as the cover of New York Magazine as a leading light pointing the way to healing and meaning in a city and world devastated by senseless violence. It marked the entry of yoga into mainstream consciousness and was heralded a seismic shift in the way yoga was perceived by the cultural zeitgeist. Initiated by Amma into Kali, Gannon into Durga, Satchidananda into Siva and initiated into Yamantaka, Vajrayogini and Ganden Hlagmo by various Tibetan Buddhist lamas, Kelly has been named by the NYT and YJ as one of NYC's 'foremost teachers', founder of the famous Conquering Lion Yoga Teacher Training Program (CLYTT), founder of the now defunct Vow Project, writer for Origin and Mantra magazines, Wanderlust Speaker, Faculty at Kripalu and Omega, Presenter at The Women And Power Conference at Omega, leader of international retreats, Kelly most recently was chosen by The Parrish Museum to lead one of their coveted Friday Night Series this summer on August 21st in The Hamptons. Kelly folded all her business's last year to focus on getting the world to meditate and to work one-on-one with men and women to help them reclaim their sacred feminine. Loved by celebrities and civilians, Kelly lives to inform and transform. www.


Sarah: Okay, wonderful. I guess we really need to ground after that. So let’s just take a moment and close our eyes. Just three minutes late, it’s been much worse before, we’ve actually had to reschedule calls because of feedback and things like that. So close your eyes and settle into our bones, and then when we breathe we’re gonna take an inhale through the nose up along the spine. A deep inhale, up along the spine, opening up the crown. Exhale. Two more times at your own pace, inhale through the nose up along the spine. Exhale through the mouth. One more time like that, inhale up along the spine, up through the chakras, opening the crown. Exhaling through the mouth. I’m just thanking this family of wonderful women, who make me feel so comfortable and let me know what’s going on. I feel like I know all of you now, and I do, and I’m super grateful. I’m just calling in the elements of the North, of the earth, for grounding tonight, for holding us, for stabilizing us, and I’m calling in the elements of the East, air, may we be inspired tonight, and I’m calling in the elements of the South, the fire, may we be tuned in and tapped into our desires and what serves us tonight, and I’m calling in the elements of water, may we be refreshed and reborn through this work, calling in Spirit and Goddess within and Goddess without, may this be of service, may we be tapped into our higher selves, and find the gems that serve this collective conversation about the feminine and the path of purpose and healing the planet first through ourselves. And thank you so much for being here. Tonight we have a really beautiful sister, we have two really amazing people in their fields tonight--it may have added to my nerves--women who have just really found their seat and who speak to the masses. The first one is my sweet friend, Divine Harmony is her name, just sort of like I have a name I work under, she works under Divine Harmony and that really speaks to her attunement to the stars, and Spirit, and the Goddess, and her work. She’s currently in Costa Rica which is why we have a little bit of a snafu. She’s an amazing astrologer, mother and a partner, and without further adieu, hi Harmony.


Harmony: Hello!


Sarah: I’m so glad we can hear you.


Harmony: I know! And just so you know, I wasn’t prepared to use my computer because I thought we were doing the landline, so I don’t have my ear piece, but I can hear you great, so hopefully you can all hear me great too.


Sarah: And the great thing is that I’m on the Facebook group, so when there’s a problem, the girls are really great about telling me.


Harmony: Perfect!


Sarah: So they’re saying, “No echo now, yay!” is the latest update. So we’re good! We’ve become quite the Coven! Very supportive. So hi! How are you?


Harmony: I am doing great. I’m in beautiful Costa Rica, which I’ve been here, I was here when I was pregnant, and a lot has changed in my life in the past five years, and I’m in a much deeper place of awareness and noticing. I didn’t realize how Divine Feminine this country is, just fertile and lush and humid and the bounty, and I’m totally feeling like I’m surrounded by the Goddess here, and I’m super happy and I don’t want to leave.


Sarah: Well, follow your bliss! We’ll get to that in a moment. The great Shaman, actually our second speaker has worked with him, but he talks about that being a second chakra land--very wet and dark and moist and necessary to return and connect with that sort of energy.


Harmony: Yes!


Sarah: Yeah, and that the problem with the world is that we’re cut off from our second chakras. Does that resonate with you?


Harmony: Yes, I think that we’re either cut off from it, or we operate out of it in an overblown way. It’s one of the chakras that we need to work on balancing, you’re either cut off from it, or you over do it. And how to be centered in it and come from a place where you’re not obsessed and you’re not afraid of your own passion and your own desires, your own fertility and your own emotions.


Sarah: So, these calls have really become the human behind the healer. Ya know, the woman behind the divine work. And also obviously marrying the human and the divine. But can you explain to us how you show up divinely in the world? What your offering to the world is?


Harmony: Sure, I’d be happy to, so obviously I’m an astrologer, every astrologer has the lens they view life through, and forms their work, I mean that’s actually the case for everybody in life in general, and in my work it’s depth psychology, I have my masters degree in depth psychology from Pacific Graduate Institute, and then my other passion and interest in spirituality, and so the two, that’s how I use astrology--to look at the shadow, and what’s underneath, and also about spiritual growth and awakening. And then I definitely have a huge passion for the Goddess. I do readings, I write a lot, I love to write, I teach classes, I have a particular passion for conscious relationships. It’s something I’m trying to figure out for myself. But I love it and I’ve written stuff about it. I just go with, I teach from where I’m at, I write from where I’m at, whatever I teach is going on for me, and resonates with me, and it magically appears to resonate with other people. So I’m on my path, and my number one priority above everything is my inner work, and my spiritual work, and that informs everything I do. So, I feel like a big piece of what I bring to the world is my willingness to do my work, and have other people go, yes, we can make that a priority in life and have other things orient around that. I wanna walk with the other people on this path and we can support each other, and walk each other home.


Sarah: You’ve done something really interesting which is sort of “made it” as an astrologer, which I think that many of the women on this call, they use Mystic Mama as a resource for all things ritual and the stars. And you’re quoted a lot, you’re used there. I often have people sending me things during full moons and I’m like, “Yeah! That’s my friend!” And I’m a little proud. How does one become a professional astrologer? Is that something you knew you always wanted to do? How did you get there?


Harmony: No, it is not something I knew. And even you just saying, “You’ve made it,” I just kinda want to laugh, because I don’t think about myself that way, but thank you. So I got into astrology when I was 19. I was raised born-again Christian, and I love Jesus by the way, but my spirituality has changed and shifted and changed, and I’m interested in Egyptian and Mayan and Hawaiian, but I grew up in a particular lens, which is born again Christian, so I had never heard of astrology because in my church, astrology was evil, and not good or whatever. So I went to college--


Sarah: Whichcraft!


Harmony: Yeah, essentially. So I went to college and someone had a Cosmo magazine, or Mademoiselle, I don’t even know, but there were horoscopes. And I read my horoscope and it resonated, and I was like, what is this? So then I started to look into it, and then all the sudden my friends started buying me books on astrology for my birthday. It’s almost like astrology came after me. And I know it’s because I’ve been doing astrology for lifetimes. To me it’s like a second language, and even when I can look back to when I was young, I would look back to the stars when I was young, and particularly one star, I didn’t know what it was at the time, but Sirius, which I believe is the second brightest star in the sky. And I would look up at the stars and Sirius, and something inside me would be like, I wanna be up there. Like I would long to be in the stars. It was this mystical moment I guess. And so it was there, in a seed form. So then I studied it for 13 years, and it was always just a hobby and a passion, and I loved it and I would read everyone’s chart, but I never thought I would do anything with it. And then when I went to grad school, Pacifica, in the summer we had to do field work, but my field work fell through and at the last minute I had been in communication with an astrologer and he was just like, why don’t you intern with me? So I interned with him for my field work, he taught me how to write a horoscope. And then I interviewed a bunch of leading astrologers in the field about the evolution of astrology, because I feel like everything upleveled. Even astrology. And it’s like, there are ways that astrology needs to grow, and it’s not just like, you go with the one thing because we’ve always done it, that can get us sometimes. So then I did that, and then the universe threw things at me. My friend built a website and wanted me to write horoscopes. And I was like, I can’t do that, and he said, yes you can, so I did it, and I started out with like 15 readers which was pretty much my family and close friends.


Sarah: How we all start!


Harmony: Yeah, and by the end the of the year there were like 3,000 people a week reading my horoscopes. It was really weird. And then readings came in, and oh, I really resisted that. I could do readings for my friends, but to get paid brought up a lot of nausea so I had to work through that. So it’s just been one of those things that sort of followed me and made me realize that this is part of my path.


Sarah: So what was the nausea about getting paid?


Harmony: Oh it was totally...


Sarah: Wait, Harmony? Harmony? Are you there? Oh no.


Harmony: Wait! Hi!


Sarah: There you are!


Harmony: Somehow I got muted.


Sarah: Okay. So the nausea about getting paid, because this is a big conversation in the spiritual community right now--owning our worth, knowing that healers and artists are very important to the shifts in the paradigm.


Harmony: Yeah, I’ve had a lot of stuff around that. And in my natal chart I have Venus, which is self-worth and abundance, and self-love, and I have her squaring Chiron, the wounded healer, who had tons of wounding around having enough, being worth enough. Literally I could do things for free, but the second money was involved, and I was going to be judged--you know, if someone pays me money then they actually care more about the quality of my work, where as if it’s free, they’re like whatever. And I did that with massage, and with astrology. I literally, with massage, before my first paid massage, I had to go into the bathroom to puke.


Sarah: I’ve actually found that it’s the opposite. I’ve found that if I don’t charge, they’re like whatever, they don’t show up, they don’t do the soul work. Because if I charge, an energy exchange has been on the table. Does that make sense?


Harmony: Yeah, where I’m at now, that’s definitely the case. But before, I would only doing readings for friends and family. I wasn’t doing it for free for people I didn’t know. So those people were close to me, and it was different. But yeah, I’m in total agreement with you, this is valuable. We go out and spend $200 on a dress, but we don’t wanna spend $200 on spiritual work. For me, I also like to do things on a sliding scale. I don’t announce that on my website because I don’t want all kinds of people asking for it if they don’t need it. But if people reach out and say, oh I want to do this at some point...I work with people. Because when I was at the beginning of the path, and I didn’t have a lot of money, it would have been great if I had some things available to me. I didn’t go after them because I couldn’t afford them.


Sarah: Right.


Harmony: I go with my intuition on that.


Sarah: So yesterday I had an unexpected tarot reading, and it was spot on, chillingly so, as if she’d had like a hidden camera in my house. And because of me nodding through it, and going yeah, uh huh, and because of me raising my eyebrow, she was like, this is why I don’t charge because I feel like I’m telling people what they already know. And I’m like, that is the most priceless thing to confirm someone’s intuition. To be like, you’re right, you totally get it, trust yourself. That should be priceless.


Harmony: Yes! That’s what I like to with astrology. I don’t like to do astrology from a fatalistic place, like telling you when you’re gonna get married, how many kids you’re gonna have, when you’re gonna die--I’m not interested in that. I see it as a tool for self-understanding and evolution, as a way to understand our connection to the cosmos, and a way to connect to your own self. And that to me is the most gratifying. You do know but you’re questioning yourself, and then you have somebody act as a mirror for you, and it helps to trust. And to know that you’ve got the inner guru within. And we can help each other on the path, and we can be teachers to each other, but we also have an amazing resource inside of us and the whole point is to discover that.


Sarah: Right. And so when you get your birth chart done, it’s not like a set in stone thing, but it is a map, right? And it’s sort of like a character sketch. If someone is asking, why should I get my chart done, what would you say to them?


Harmony: Well let me just tell you one thing--the lights just went out and then they came back on, and it seems I haven’t lost connection.


Sarah: Oh my Goddess. I mean, pass me a valium, I’m not allowed to take them any more but these calls make me so anxious!


Harmony: And it’s Venus retrograde, and it’s in Virgo, which I swear to God, it has felt like a Mercury retrograde. Like I’ve had so many Mercury retrograde things happen, and Mercury is not retrograde. It’s like technological things, communication, missed buses and ships, and it’s kind of comical.


Sarah: Let’s go there--because these are about finding the most pertinent thing, and I can feel a resonance and this Venus retrograde came out of nowhere. When you think retrograde, you think Mercury. And this one for me has been like, instead of technology breakdowns, it has been relationship breakdowns. It’s been like, the things you’ve been avoiding telling the truth to and deeply avoiding, and I’ve had red lights about this for a long time now and it’s time to let this go or whatever. I’ve said no to more people of late, and I know deeply that it serves us both, and that confrontation is actually just pointing out the elephant in the room and serving both of you in the long run. But in the moment, it’s very uncomfortable for a deep introvert like me. I know it doesn’t look like I’m an introvert online, but I really am and Kelly who is up next is the same way, she’s a public person but she’s very sensitive, and I’m extremely sensitive and I’m finally 36 and I’m like--I have to pull the Queen card. And it’s also this Leo energy with Venus, that’s like the royalty, sort of like, if I don’t stand up for myself now, and put down boundaries for myself now, when am I ever gonna do it? And it feels a little bit like, okay, be in your throne, put on your crown, and throw some boundaries down. That’s how it feels to me. It’s sort of like an excavation of the people that are in your court that might not really all have the best interest. Sort of like a round table thing, like find the Lancelot that’s sleeping with the Queen.


Harmony: Yes! Yeah well, Leo is the sign of royalty, so that’s the perfect image. Another one is the high priestess card, and the high priestess sits between the black and white pillar, and the black pillar is the pillar of severity, and the white pillar is the pillar of mercy. I’ve been doing a lot of work on this--I’m also super sensitive--and I have a lot of Pisces, and sometimes I understand everyone’s inner child but then I don’t necessarily take a stand for my own, and then when I finally do, I do in a very angry, aggressive way because I’m so pissed off. And I’m learning, in a deeper way, how to stand up for myself, but do it in a way that’s coming from the heart. For me, my own journey recently is really seeing where I know it in the moment when I need to stand up for myself, but then I don’t, and it kind of drags on and on and then all the sudden I’m pissed off. I’m not coming from a very balanced place. I’m yelling at people. So for me, that’s also part of the Queen archetype. Stepping into our sovereignty, knowing what’s right for you right from the beginning, not like being a deer in the headlights, and then later on being like, oops, I should have set this boundary. It’s like the Queen, the Queen sets her boundaries and she sets them with love and she’s very clear with them. And Venus retrograde happens in a eight-year cycle. So in eight years, she goes retrograde five different times and she actually forms a five-pointed star in the sky. She’s always retrograde right around the same degrees, so each Venus retrograde, like this one now, has a resonance with eight years ago. So in August of 2007, you were going through the almost the same Venus retrograde over the same degrees. And so each one can look back eight years to see what was going on, and to see what seeded then that’s coming now, to see what new chapter is opening up. So retrograde actually means going backwards, but planets don’t actually stop and turn around in outer space. They’re all going direct, it’s our perspective from earth, and it’s the tilt of earth and the axis, but because we’re beings, and because earth-based astrology is always looking up, it’s significant. And so Venus retro is a time to reevaluate, Venus is all about what we value, and when she goes retrograde we’re reevaluating our values, our relationships, our finances, our relationship to abundance. Venus rules self-worth and self-value, and then Leo rules self-esteem, so there’s a big piece of this Venus retrograde that’s about really getting clear on how are we acting and relating to others and moving out into the world. Is it supporting our self-worth? Is it coming from a self-loving place? Or is it not? And if it’s not, what do we need to do to shift and change? And Venus retrograde can bring us in touch in with our deepest wounds and pain around self-worth and self-love. Especailly with the Leo, it can either go to one or the other extreme, and we need to work for balance. It’s like either I’m not good enough, which is totally a message that I’ve had in my head since I was young, which is totally a message I’ve had in my head since I was young. And this Venus retrograde is bringing it up even more. And then the other side, the shadow side of Leo, is that I’m better than everyone else. Both of those are oppression, neither of them are coming from a place of self-love. So, this Venus retrograde, and right now she’s stationed in Virgo but she’s only in the first degree of Virgo, so she’s only spent 13 total days in Virgo and not even direct. She went through it for 7 days, she stationed direct and then for the rest of the time she’s in Leo. So it’s this time of really looking at our own self-worth and self-value, and where do we need to make shifts and changes, where do we need to heal things we’ve been holding on to that have been holding us down? And Leo is connected to the third chakra, and I’ve been doing so much work with the third chakra. I did a colon cleanse, I’ve been using lemon essential oil and rubbing it on my third chakra and drinking it in my water and I’ve just been doing everything. For me, Leo is actually the most wounded in my natal chart. It’s the energy I have the most difficulty with. And this is a huge one for me, but I’ve been finding this is a huge one for clients and friends, like it’s so massive, in this particular Venus retrograde.


Sarah: There’s a lot of wounded Lion coming up, too. We think of the Lion with the thorn in its paw.


Harmony: And the highest expression of Leo, Leo is the heart, Leo is ruled by the Sun, the life source of our galaxy, and the highest expression of Leo is radiating pure love from the heart. And shining one’s light, not hiding it, not doing it so everyone will look at you, but coming from this place of, “I love myself and I love others,” and just expressing that. ANd then other people see you shine, so it makes them remember that they can shine too. It’s a beautiful energy when it’s balances. And all the signs have their highest expression and their lowest expression, but I’m just focusing on Leo because Venus is in Leo right now.


Sarah: I love the piece about healing your third chakra, that Leo energy, isn’t that sort of like, the “I am” place, the place of self-worth, how you’re showing up in the world? Is that right?


Harmony: Yeah, it’s self-esteem, it’s knowing. Leo is ruled by the Sun, and the Sun in your chart is the conscious self and the ego. I do not think ego is bad. Ego can be acted in unhealthy ways, but ego is a container for spirit, it can help protect us. If you had no ego, you’d be like floating around forgetting to pay your bills and feed yourself and deal with your children. So an ego is a good construct, we just tend to have overblown ego or underdeveloped ego, so we’re working to find the balance. You can literally do things with yellow to bring more of the sun energy into your third chakra. My husband is leading a yoga retreat and I haven’t gone to the classes because I’ve been writing, but I went today and he’s been doing one chakra every day, and today is the third chakra. Of course it is. The one class I go to.


Sarah: Right. So to heal your third chakra, you’re putting lemon in your water, and you’re rubbing lemon essential oil on your body, things like that?


Harmony: And with intention. I’m bringing in the right vital yellow energy of the sun, on the boat over here I pulled my shirt up so the sun could be on my stomach, I probably looked kind of funny doesn’t matter I don’t care. Which, by the way, Leo, healthy Leo, doesn’t care what other people think. That’s essential, that’s a lesson I’ve been learning in my life. Other people have their own journey.


Sarah: I think I’ve been so scared of having an ego that I’ve done the “not paying bills and forgetting to eat” and my friend who studies this is always telling me no, I healthy ego is a good thing.


Harmony: Yes! I had the same experience. I’ve had fear of ego. And I know for a fact that for me, it’s because I’ve overblown it in past lifetimes. And it got me into trouble and so in this life, I’m really like, walking very careful. The balance between ego and hubris is humility. And that’s the other thing I just wanted to mention about Venus, Venus stationed retrograde in the first degree of Virgo, and there’s a fixed star there called Regulus. And Regulis in ancient times actually looked for the star in the charts of royalty. It’s like the star of leadership. And for 2,000 years it’s been in Leo, but in 2012 it moved into Virgo. And it’s gonna be in Virgo for 2,000 years, and fixed stars move very slowly--one degree every 72 years. So when they change into a new sign it harrows a huge shift. And because Regulis is about leadership, it’s a shift of power. And the shadow of Leo is power in the hands of people who are coming from their ego. They’re coming from pride, it’s about ruling everyone and being king, it’s about people underneath. Whereas the highest expression of Virgo is the Divine Feminine. She’s the Virgin. And there’s a connection to the feminine, the earth, Virgo is about service. And the shadow is of Leo is like, everyone look at me, where the highest expression of Virgo is, “I’m here to serve, and I’m here to be humble and realize that we’re all in this together.” And one person at the top being happy with all of these people at the bottom being miserable doesn’t work. Not only does it not work for the people at the bottom, but it doesn’t work for the me. Even though I think I’m at the top and it’s great, it doesn’t work because we’re all a part of humanity. And if some people are suffering, we all are suffering.


Sarah: Right. You’ve said a ton of interesting stuff, and of course now we only have less than a half hour left and there’s a lot I want to get to tonight. So, we’ve talked about the Sun, and that brings me to, why is it important that we know our Sun, our Moon, and our Rising? Why are those the big things we get told when we get our charts done? And how do those correspond to our personality and to our lives? Sun, Moon, Rising?


Harmony: Yes, so first of all, just so you know, the whole chart really is important, but when you’re first looking at your chart it gets very overwhelming to look at all of the pieces. So you narrow it down to just a few things so you don’t overwhelm yourself. So the Sun, Moon, and Rising are the first things I always look at in a chart, to kind of achor in. So the Sun has to do with the conscious self and the ego, it’s masculine and yang energy, it tends to be how we want to be seen and how people will see us. The moon is a more feminine yin energy, it’s more introverted, introspective, reflective, it has to do with feelings and emotions and inner life. It also a connection to past lives and childhood, and ancestry. Then the Rising sign is the mask you show to the world. It has a lot to do with how people first see you. It has to do with physical appearance. I have Pisces rising, and so does my daughter, and Pisces rising typically has really big eyes. And I do, and hers are even bigger because she has a small face. And Leo rising often has to do with the hair that makes it look like a mane. Or even if someone doesn’t have long, big hair, there is something important about the hair, or there’s a kingly or queenly energy about the shape of the face. So you can literally see physical appearance with the rising. From an esoteric perspective, which I have dabbled in esoteric astrology as well, the rising sign is not just a mask, it actually has to do with your soul’s journey. And at some point in your life you’re supposed to move away from over-identification with the Sun, which can be the ego. And then you align that with the rising sign which is the soul’s journey. All three are important and then also the chart itself is also important. And then one question you asked me but I didn’t answer is “why get your chart read?”


Sarah: Right.


Harmony: It’s an opportunity to understand yourself more deeply. It’s your thumbprint but in a chart form. It’s literally a snapshot of the sky the moment you were born. And we all come in when we are meant to. So there’s nothing happenstance about it. Whatever lessons you’re learning, it’ll show up in the aspects of your chart. And I’ve had people who are just like I don’t believe in astrology and then I give them a reading and they’re all like, oh my god, how did you know that about me? And I’m like, it’s in the chart.


Sarah: Right.


Harmony: So it can help people understand themselves, understand their lessons more deeply. I particularly love doing shadow readings, because shadow in particularly hard to see within yourself. It’s the aspects of yourself that’s not conscious and in the whole point of enlightenment is integration and becoming more aware of the different parts of ourself, so we’re not projecting parts of ourself on to other people and disconnecting from them. So there’s many reason to get a chart reading. My personal number one reason if for soul growth.


Sarah: Right.


Harmony: I like to do readings for people who are on a path and who really want to learn and grow, again like I said, I’m not interested in when you’ll die or how many relationships you’ll have. I think there’s possibilities and the main thing is realizing what they are so you can be conscious as you move through life and make choices from a conscious place, as opposed to just being dragged.


Sarah: Yes. You’ve said you’re really good at seeing people’s shadows. Is there like a trick, or is it something you’re just a natural that you’re good at? Because I think we would all like to be more aware of our shadow.


Harmony: So it was interesting how I got into it. When I went to grad school I studied personal psychology and I was gonna be a therapist, and at the time I got in and it’s this amazing school but it just didn’t feel right. And I had a shaman and he’s like, “It’s not feeling right because there’s something else out there for you.” Well, what? It hadn’t come in yet, so I had to tell one school NO, but the other thing hadn’t come in yet. So I had to just sit there and wait. And that’s a scary place to be sometimes. And then I came upon Pacifica. And Pacifica is depth psychology. So transpersonal psychology is about going out and up and rising above, whereas depth psychology is going down and in, and it’s all about the shadow. So my initiation into the shadow in this life was through Pacifica. It was an amazing experience going to that school. I consider it a modern mystery school where you get a legal degree that the world will recognize, but they have no idea what you went through to get the degree. I come at it from a psychological place. Dreamwork--I’m big into dream work, you can see all kinds of things in your dreams. And there are many ways to work with your dreams. A really good book is Understanding Dreams by Anne McTune. There’s layers, but you can see every character in your dream as some aspect of yourself. Particularly when you have dreams where there’s somebody that’s got negative energy or chasing you or freaking you out, that can be a symbol of your own shadow. Something that you’re not looking at and facing, so it’s showing up. The thing about shadow is that as long as you remain unconscious of it, it unconsciously controls us. And it comes into our lives as fate, and it comes into our lives as explosions that we don’t even realize have self-created. And so becoming aware of it is important. Another thing about shadow is that I think it’s important to be aware of is that it’s not just bad stuff--it’s not just our anger and our narcissism and our guilt and our shame--in the shadow lies some of our greatest gifts. And it can be stuff that came in, like an innate natural gift that we had when we were young, but then maybe our parents didn’t understand it, our culture didn’t understand it, we got messages that oh no, it’s not okay for you to be this. So that gets shoved into our shadow. So when you do shadow work, you can discover some of your biggest pieces of your soul, like why you’re here and what you’re meant to do, but you’ve never gone there because you were told no, that’s not okay--girls don’t do this, or whatever. Boys aren’t allowed to go there.


Sarah: Right.


Harmony: So therapy is a great thing for shadow, I’m a big fan of union therapy personally. Work with your animas. Women have an inner masculine and men have an inner feminine, and for women it’s called animas. And our outer relationships with men mirror our inner relationships with our inner masculine. So if you want to shift patterns in your outer relationships, you need to start within. Everything sources from within, you may as well start with the source. And so I’ve been doing a lot of [enemas] work lately, I’ve been journaling, dream work, I’ve been getting books that normally men would read about the sacred masculine, and I’m reading of them thinking of my own inner masculine.


Sarah: Beautiful.


Harmony: And I’m trying to understand and deepen my connection with him. And then astrology. There’s so many ways to work with shadow. But in astrology you can see the shadow in the charts. It’s like particular houses, planets, and aspects. And you can see it. So if you study astrology you can study your chart from a shadow perspective, and you can get a reading that’s focused on the shadow and integrating it.


Sarah: You’re brave. There’s so much I wanna ask you. So we’re talking about the sacred masculine, and you’ve used the term “conscious coupling”. And you said you’ve been in both--unconscious and conscious coupling. How do you describe, at this point in your life, being in a conscious couplehood?


Harmony: Well, there are two things that you and I have talked about before, and one of them is conscious relationship and one is conscious parenting. And I have something to say about both of them in a similar sentence. So, there’s this idea of conscious relationship, or conscious parenting, and oh, it seems so elevated and exalted and it’s like this divine spiritual place of relating and parenting. And I am learning through experience as a wife and as a mother that oh no no no, conscious relationship and conscious parenting is actually becoming conscious about all of the areas that you’re unconscious. And shining a light on all of your shadow and shit, so you can deal with it, so you don’t pass it on to your children, so you don’t let it destroy your relationship. So it’s actually really powerful work. It’s like, me and my husband, we’ll make jokes with each other, and it’s wow--conscious relationship--it’s a lot of work! And yet it’s the best work possible. And I’m very into sacred union, externally but also very much internally. And that’s that whole animal thing. Your animas is your inner beloved. And until you enter into a beloved relationship that is fully healed and worked with, you can’t fully manifest the highest potential of that externally. And it’s fine, we’re going through our journey and we’re learning our lessons, and we have so many different soul mates that help to wake us up and shine a light on our wounds, and help us along the path. But the inner union work is really pivotal, and I’m very big on that. I’m very big on conscious relationship and sacred union and I’m trying to find that our for myself, and I’m working on it with my husband, but a big piece of that for me is the inner journey. I don’t think that the outer journey can be completed until the inner journey has been completed. Personally.


Sarah: So there’s a couple things, and I wanna make sure we get to these really meaty questions. One is, we’re talking about shadow, and one of the good things, one of the happy things is about looking at your shadow is discovering a hidden purpose because it might not be socially acceptable or looked at as weird, or it’s what “men do”, or it would call for you to move to Australia, or something we might be afraid of to make conscious because it would change our lives. And so you--it wasn’t like you came from a line of astrologers or a line of people who talk about the dark Goddess, you broke a paradigm when you became an astrologer. You said some really interesting things about that yesterday--do you mind going over that? How you broke the path? And became a pioneer in your family for self-study and evolution?


Harmony: Yes. So a big thing for me--it’s a gift, but also--well, it’s not a curse but it’s definitely an intense gift. My soul will not allow me to go in directions for very long that I’m not happy with or fulfilled with. So I’ve always kind of followed my bliss even though the world thinks I shouldn’t, or my dad thinks I’ve lost it or whatever. I remember I was in New York and all the sudden I did this first yoga retreat I had ever done, or this yoga teacher training rather, and I got this urge inside that I had to go to India. And I told my parents, “I’m going to India!” And I booked my ticket for three weeks and I went off for like, six months to India. And they were just like, “what are you doing?!” But I just had to go. To not follow the inner calling, I would have been miserable. My soul would have created so much misery for me until I did it. And so I come in with that awareness, that I have to follow my inner voice or else I’m gonna not be happy. So that’s a positive but it’s also gotten me into some interesting places. And with my parents, my mom has a mystical side for sure, but I was brought up born-again Christian, so I had that structure. So as I got into these different things--I remember when I got into astrology--she was just like, “That’s evil. That’s not right. It says in the Bible that that’s bad.”


Sarah: Wow.


Harmony: But then she started opening up to it. It was amazing. And actually as I went on in my path and got into shamanism and goddess stuff, she started to open up to it. And so we’ve had this amazing mother-daughter dance, which I’m so grateful for. I had a parent who could see me at certain points. My dad is different, he definitely thinks I’m a little out there, but he just lets me do what I’m gonna do. There are times when he has his comments about my path, but I know he loves me. So for me it was, I think it’s so important to follow one’s bliss. I know that sounds very cliche or whatever--Jason Campbell said that--but it’s so true. When I follow my heart’s desire and my passion it leads me to amazing places. And there are times when I literally I have to jump and I have no idea where I’m jumping, or if a net is going to appear, or if I’m going to sprout wings and fly, but I’m asked to trust in my inner knowing. The universe has led me here, it’s not going to let me fall flat on my face, I just need to do it. And I can’t tell you how many times in my life I’ve come to that edge. And it’s scary every single times. Every single time I look over the edge and I’m like, really? You want me to jump? And yet when I do, that’s when my life takes off in the next direction that’s so important for me.


Sarah: Leap and the net appears.


Harmony: Yes!


Sarah: Every single call, it all boils down to trusting your intuition. But you’ve talked about--there was a time when you weren’t so connected to your spiritual path and that’s when you had your daughter. And a lot of women are struggling between, I wanna keep evolving, I wanna stay true to my spiritual path, but I’m a mother. And that comes first. How do you balance all that?


Harmony: Well--just to clarify, I was very in my spiritual path, and then I got pregnant and had my daughter. And all of your energy goes to this little being. And for the first year or two, I just felt so disconnected. I wasn’t having my dreams--I have amazing dreams--and they were gone because I was sleep deprived. And by the way, when you’re sleep deprived, you don’t dream because your body just wants you to get the good sleep. So your dreams go out the window and before having a child I would wake up, I would meditate, I would journal, I would do my yoga. I had all these hours in the morning to myself. That doesn’t happen with a child unless you’re waking up at 4 in the morning. So for those first couple of years, I felt very disconnected. I felt like my spiritual path went away from me. It was really hard. A big part of my journey right now is learning how to balance these two paths. I love my child, she is goddess to me. I see the goddess in her. She is so loving, and so sweet. There’s so much heart opening that’s come from being a mother. And, at the same time, I work full time. And I have my own inner work I want to do, and it’s definitely been a struggle. And I don’t necessary have the answer, I just want other mothers out there to know that it’s normal. One thing I do wanna say is, mothers, one of the most important things is raising children, we’re raising the future. The work we do for ourselves impacts their capacity to come in more healed and more whole, which then impacts the generations in the future. So when you’re in your moment of saying, oh I wanna do this for myself, I wanna meditate, I wanna whatever, but it’s like, we’re having to do something else. To understand that being a mother and raising another being is so sacred and so important. And it is a spiritual path. It isn’t the transcendent one, it’s not the going up and out, there are blissful moments by the way. It’s not like “out there” spirituality it’s the “down here.” Motherhood is very root chakra, Saturn, grounding, anchoring energy. It’s being here, being present. The other thing I wanna share is that I do think it’s really important for mothers to create the space for themselves to do their work because we teach our children my what we do. So if I don’t take care of myself, I teach my daughter how to sacrifice herself all the time and never take care of herself. At the same time, if I do whatever I want and ignore her, I’m teaching her something else that’s not so great. So it’s important to give ourselves that time and balance that with being there and being the mom. And I think it’s incredibly hard and I give props to any mom out there that is doing this juggling act because it is not easy. I’m still figuring out how to do it. I’m doing my best. I’m trying to do better.


Sarah: Beautiful. There are a lot of people on this call who have [black lillas] in their chart and they also have the wounded healer. So I wanna ask--who is the wounded healer, Chiron, and how can she heal herself?


Harmony: Are you still there?


Sarah: I am.


Harmony: Oh, sorry, I thought you dropped. Okay so Chiron is the wounded healer, he’s the rainbow bridge. He’s this planetoid, he’s not a planet, and he’s got a very erratic orbit. He moves between Saturn, which is the last visible planet that we can see with our naked eye, and Uranus, which is the first of the invisible planets, and the transpersonal. So Saturn in--the Sun through Saturn have to do with our own personal ego experience. Uranus out has to do with transpersonal. It’s nothing to do with the ego, it’s about awakening, growth and transformation. Chiron is the bridge between the two, the ego and spirituality, the personal and the transpersonal. And Chiron, he literally he’s a centaur, so he’s half horse half man, half god half human, and he symbolizes the merging of the human and the divine. And so there’s amazing, blissful, transpersonal enlightenment experiences that can come with Chiron. And at the same time the flip-side--reminding us that we’re in a body, we have wounds, we have pain, and the only way to heal is to fully feel. The only way to transcend is to move through. So Chiron is really key. His transit can be so intense, it brings up some of the deepest stuff, your wounds and pain from childhood, from past lives, and yet the opportunity for healing is absolutely profound if you stay with the process, stay in your body, feel your emotions, not check out, not go oh! I’m trying to go out to the transpersonal and not deal with the personal. He is about the bridging of the two. Which to me is the whole--we talk about ascension--for me, ascension is not about going up and out to some other planet or some level of consciousness where all the bad people will be gone. It’s about descension of spirit into body, it’s about being fully here and in body, but fully aware of our spiritual being inside of the body. Chiron can help us do that.


Sarah: So if you have a lot of [black lilith] in your chart what does that say about you?


Harmony: So black lilltih is the dark goddess. ANd she’s another thing that I have a lot of passion about, because I love the dark feminine. There’s dark and there’s light, there’s masculine and there’s feminine. Dark does not mean evil. Like if you look at a tree, everything above is the light--the leaves and the branches are in the light. What’s in the dark, beneath, are the roots and you can’t have a tree without roots. The light feminine has been the feminine that patriarchy has venerates. It’s like pure, virginal, sweet, self-sacrificing. The dark feminine is another aspect of the feminine but she’s very different from the light feminine. She’s fierce, she’s intense, she’s connected to her body and her sexuality. She is a force to be reckoned with. So [black lilith] is a very powerful energy in the chart, especially if you have it conjunct to your sun, your moon, your rising. I have her on my Sun. She’s definitely connected to the priestess and the witch for sure. And because we’ve had 2,000 years of repression of the empowered feminine, anyone who has a lot of dark goddess is going to have some journey of healing around that. Even if you grew up in a family that supported you being in your power, we live in a culture that is only starting to wake up to the fact that women can be powerful as well and it doesn’t mean that they’re bitches, or witches, or cunts, and whores. All bad names for the dark goddess. But I love her, I love the dark goddess, in all of her forms. And I look at the dark feminine when I do the shadow reading. I also look at it when I do a first natal reading, because I think she’s so important.


Sarah: So we’re gonna have to wrap up here. So you’re careful about your ego now and power because--a lot of women who are drawn to priestess work, a lot of us remember being cast out or set aflames. Some of remember abusing our power. When matriarchy was at its height, you talked about, there were power [    ]...and you’re quite passionate about a balance. Do you want to go into that a little bit.


Harmony: Yes, one thing that I was sharing with my husband, is that when you go into matriarchal culture, we’re definitely in patriarchal times right now, but we’ve been in patriarchal times and I don’t personally think it was all love and light then. ANything out of balance will go too far in one direction. There are stories of when the matriarchy was in charge the men were really abused, and the kings were being killed as sacrifices to the goddess, and my husband was like, “What? They were being killed? No wonder they got uproared.” I’m personally not interested in taking any life, and I know if was ritualistic, but still I could see how that would feel scary to men. So I think it’s all about balance. The return of the divine feminine, to me it’s not about her coming in and taking over and now being the dominant one. It’s about her coming back in and finding balance with the masculine. We need both. We need them to work together. That inner union--we need it inwardly and externally. The inner work we do impacts the collective. I am very strongly believing that it's about balance, it’s about yin and yang, it’s about light and shadow, it’s not about taking one part and throwing it in the garbage.


Sarah: Right.


Harmony: That creates issues.


Sarah: But that said, she does need to rise on the planet. And how is that so? How is that healing, for her to rise?


Harmony: Well I feel the feminine is very connected to the heart. As women, there is one thing we have that men don’t have. We have the power to create life. We have a womb. And even women who choose not to have children, they have a womb and they have creative fertility energy encoded in their being. And so the feminine, coming back in, it’s about compassion, it’s about the heart, but it’s also about the fact that the feminine is the creator. It’s the creatrix energy. And we need to heal and empower ourselves, be in our power but coming from the heart, so that the creations that go forward come from this balanced place. We can rise up, and in doing so we can allow the masculine to rise up, it’s a partnership. There’s so many women--and this is the Regulis part, Venus’s fixed star--Venus is stationed retrograde on Regulis and it’s gonna align with Regulis three different times because of the retrograde. Jupiter just moved into Virgo last week, and he’s on Regulis right now. Venus is the lesser [benefit], Jupiter is the greater [benefix]. They’re the two lights in the sky. The ancients saw them as super beneficial. They’re both aligned Regulis which is now in the sign of the divine feminine, heralding a shift of power, bringing it into the hands of those who that serve, that are here to help people realize that we need to work together. It’s not about some people at the top and some people at the bottom. So that’s a big piece of why this particular Venus retrograde is so potent. So many women are feeling this right now, and men, but I’m talking to a lot of women. I’m involved in a Venus retrograde group right now and it’s amazing how amazing how many people are being called to face their biggest stuff and their biggest issues. It’s time. It’s time. We cannot rise until we fully move through and feel and heal all the stuff that has been holding us back. So this summer is very much about that.


Sarah: Amazing. So I have literally pages of things I didn’t get to ask you, so for people whose thirst is quenched here--or not quenched--how can people find you and work with you and continue to learn from you?


Harmony: I am writer, and my website is I write a ton of stuff, I have free content, and I have subscriber services, so both are one there. I teach at conferences, I’m gonna be teaching at Bhakti fest, two different classes. I’m teaching at a Woman Arising conference in Sedona in October. I teach online webinar classes and I’m actually gonna have a beginner’s astrology class coming up, middle or late September. I have the dates on my website, sorry I’m forgetting right now. I also do intermediate classes, private lessons, I co-teach retreats with my husband, and I do a lot of readings. I do in-depth readings, which is all about depth-psychology shadow readings, and I also especially love to do children’s readings. I have my own daughter and looking at her chart has helped me so much in terms of how to raise this amazing being. I think there might be other things I do but I think that’s it in a nutshell.


Sarah: That’s a lot! Thank you so much for sharing yourself and your gifts tonight. I wish it hadn’t flown by so fast!


Harmony: It did go by quick. Thank you very much for holding this space for everyone, Sarah.


Sarah: I hope to see you soon.


Harmony: Yes. Love you!


Sarah: Love you, goodnight! Kelly?


Kelly: Hi, can you hear me?


Sarah: Hi Kelly!


Kelly: Hi. Can you hear me? I lost my earbuds like ten minutes ago so I have you on speaker phone I’m so sorry if I sound weird.


Sarah: No you sound great!


Kelly: Okay awesome.


Sarah: I’m a little lubed up for us, after a nerve-wracking start of hearing Harmony, and then not hearing Harmony, but I can hear you and we’re all warmed up for you.


Kelly: Great.


Sarah: So how are you?


Kelly: I am so well. And want to firstly say how honored I am and grateful to be asked and to be included in such an incredible group of women. And from what you’ve told me about these women is that they also sound equally phenomenal. So, welcome, and thank you so much for having me.


Sarah: Thank you Kelly and I feel like I’ve known you as a sister and a friend and energetically. And you always show up for me in really loving and supportive ways. And when I was researching you more in depth today I got really intimidated. So Kelly is a life coach, a master yoga teacher, a meditation teacher, we’re moving away from the word guru but she often gets called that, and we’ll talk about that shift. And you’ve been teaching since the ‘80s? or the 90’s?


Kelly: I’m not so great at math, but I’m 49 now, and I started yoga stuff when I was about 27.


Sarah: I’m terrible at math too but two of us together…


Kelly: Yeah! Let’s go for a drive and try to read a map!


Sarah: We’d just like, drive into the water.


Kelly: Yeah, you and I would just get on to that electric bronco thing.


Sarah: Yeah. See that’s a long time, that’s what I can tell. And it’s almost half your life, or something? You had a really cool story about it. I’ve read some really cool stuff about you today, and stuff I didn’t know because you’re actually quite modest. But a boyfriend took you to a yoga class, and you weren’t doing yoga, you weren’t really on that path. Right? What was that scenario.


Kelly: I was working in fashion, I think, and basically just doing a lot of blow and partying a lot. It’s funny, I’m actually deeply introverted, so the public persona thing is this thing that I’ve felt, at least most of the time, that I’ve kind of had to put up to even get my foot in the door and sit down because I’m so introverted. When I met Danny, he was really into yoga, and I was such a bitch that I used to call him a yoga faggot. And I’d be like you’re such a yoga faggot. And I have gay family, so I didn’t mean it like that, but I was like, who does yoga? I thought, that’s just the lamest weirdest thing. I was like, I go to clubs. Ya know, I’m on a guest list. What are you talking about yoga? That’s weirdo freaky people. Anyway, so finally, he convinced me to go to a yoga class. And I went, and I was probably hungover, but there were like 200 people--I think it was Bryan Kest--and I couldn’t do anything. Like when I stood in a forward bend, my hands didn’t even go past my knees. I thought, my skin just doesn’t stretch this way. But I was so weirdly into it. Even though the teacher--Lisa Bonet was next to me, the actress--and the teacher was like, inhale warrior one, Lisa? Lisa? Friday night? Exhale warrior two, give me your number. Literally in the middle of class he’s hitting on Lisa Bonet.


Sarah: I would too.


Kelly: Well I have all this teacher/student boundary stuff, so we walked out of the class and I said to Danny, I said, I wanna do this. I’ve figured out what I wanna do. And he said, well that’s nice honey, so you’re not gonna go to Equinox anymore? Or whatever the gym was. And I said, no you don’t understand. I wanna become a yoga teacher. And in my mind I thought, I can do this. And I can do it better, to be honest. That’s what I thought, and I’m admitting that to you. Then I discovered it was much much harder than anyone could really describe. But that was it, I went to New York and went to every weird, hippie, dim-lit, candles, incense, and then I finally found Jivamukti when it was on Second Ave. when it was a small, cool, fringe-ish place, and I took Sharon’s class, and I was like, I’m in love. I went to Sarah Lawrence, which is this really feminist school, but I hadn’t met a woman, that from my perspective, stood in her power and radiated power. At that time, I hadn’t seen her in a long time, and we had a lot of ups and downs, and I won’t discuss that part, but at that time--I took class with her once, and I could literally see sparks coming off of her body. And I was like, I have a mentor. This is so awesome. So I did their year-long teacher training, and it was a year long Sarah--it was every weekend all day. Today, people are like, “I’m gonna do a 200-hour teacher training. And we’re gonna do vision boards and talk about tarot.” But when I did teacher training, it was like the hardcore real deal like we were in India. And I had to do karma yoga stuff, so I would spend a whole weekend cleaning that hippie, grimy, disgusting vegan kitchen that they had, literally from the floor to the ceiling, while the students walk by and look at you, and you’re so in service mode, there was nothing humiliating about it. You’re so thrilled to be involved in something that you think is so important and so real. Like I had been obsessed since I was a kid, like why are people suffering? And why the fuck is the world like this? And why can’t I talk about my period at dinner? Like people in my family, they don’t fart. Like for real. And so, I just never knew anyone really did that. I remember to my friend Amy’s house, when I was 12, and her family sat around and watched TV together. And so I’m sitting on the couch, I had just moved back from Japan, and I was really happy I found a friend finally. So we were eating popcorn and watching a show, and everyone was super chilled out with their feet up, the room is dark, and I hear the father say to the son, pull my finger. And the son pulls the finger, and the father rips a huge fart. And the whole family starts laughing. And I go running into the bathroom, and I was so taken back, like--someone just farted. In public. This gives you an idea of how Catholic my mother was.


Sarah: Yes. Same here.


Kelly: So it’s like this really oppressive thing for women. I don’t know how any woman could be Catholic and call herself a feminist or call herself anything. In the Bible, women are just treated like shit from head to toe. So I’m just kind of like, meh. I get really sidetracked, because I have ADD, so you have to steer me back.


Sarah: Okay well I wanna steer you back to that first class. I talk the same way because I’m a storyteller but that first class--so it just strikes me as not a coincidence that you’re in a class with Lisa Bonet and that’s not everybody’s first class that they’re next to someone from the Cosby show, and now you’re a magnet to teach celebrities. So what makes a good teacher? Cause you’ve seen a lot and that’s the first part of that questions.


Kelly: Ya know what’s really funny is that when I was in Jivamukti, sort of in my heyday there, I remember Sharon sent me an email and she said, why do the students listen to you? They don’t listen to me.


Sarah: Hmmm.


Kelly: And I wrote back without even thinking. She’s like, where do you get your confidence from? And I wrote back and said, confidence comes from humility. And it really does. So sorry--you asked me about the first class.


Sarah: Wait, I love that though. Harmony and I were talking about that I believe there’s a fall from hubris into humility, and we were talking about being both spiritual and human. I feel we’re in this really human revolution where these sort of spiritual celebrity people are being taken off their pedestals. And this oneness is happening. And maybe we’ll have time to talk about some of the scandals that we’ve seen that really knock people off their pedestals when they can’t get off themselves. Can you go into that more? How confidence comes from humility? I think that’s really genius.


Kelly: The first thing is that the word understand means to stand under. So it means recognizing that someone knows more than you, so you stand under them. It’s sort of like the Buddhist adage, you need to be an empty cup when you meet the teacher. Because if you’re filled with your own ideas and your own knowledge, there’s no room for new things to come in. So you try to be an empty cup whenever you’re around someone who you’re trying to learn from. And you set aside your personal biases and partialities and you try to step out of your own lens, you know the one we’ve all been developing since birth. You try to really see and hear the teachings, clean and pure, like a blank slate, like you don’t know anything. So that’s how I’ve always treated my teacher. I am the first person to stand up when they come in the room, and when they stand up to go to the bathroom, I stand up, and I don’t turn my back on them. And when they speak, I look at them and I never ever look away. And people can come in the room and things can happen, but you never take your eyes off the teacher. The karma that arises from that, according to the Tibetan Buddhists, in order to get anything, you have to give it first. So if you want respect, you have to give respect. And likewise if you’re feeling disrespected, then you need to look at your behavior and look at where you’re talking down to people. Otherwise you’ll continue to reap the karma of people talking down to you. And anything goes, if people don’t listen to you, you don’t listen.


Sarah: Right.


Kelly: So I’m always very humble around my teachers, and it’s not an effect, it’s how I really feel. Because teachers are performing some of the most important acts of care that we can find in our world. From a mother teaching a child how to tie his shoe, sitting beside her child over and over again until the child learns the rhythm of how to tie his shoe lace. ALl the way up to Gloria Steinem or Hillary Clinton or whatever. There’s a great powerful gift of being the teacher, and it’s the view of the feminine and view of women. So all the women on this call, that’s you. Wherever you find that in your life, it doesn’t matter if something invisible that you do in the privacy of your home. It’s still a part of this karma, and once I treated my teachers like that, and because I did that for years, well not in high school, but when I wised up. In highschool I was thrown out all the time, but I became wiser. I think I was always so dissatisfied when I was growing up because I was so sick of the garbage that I was being fed from everywhere I looked. When I finally found yoga, and the yoga sutras and stuff like that, I was like oh my God. This it it. I can read this and this is truth. This isn’t some fairytale. These are things, I can understand them and learn them and I can apply them to my life and they’ll change my life, which is exactly what happened. So to get back to what Sharon said, the reason why the students listen to me is because I planted the karmic seed of listening to my teachers. So, therefore, the boomerang effect is that people listen to me and take what I say seriously. I don’t know that about myself, because I’m always nervous and shy and I wanna throw up before I do talks like this, like tonight. I’m very introverted so it takes a lot, and I’m very sensitive, I’m an empath, I can feel energy and I’m sure you can too and many women on the call can. There’s a vulnerability that comes from sharing your real inner story. SO that’s the humility piece. It’s not about humble pie or being a doormat, or not standing in your light, or anything silly like that. It’s simply, you’re equal to the teacher. But when someone knows something you don’t, you have to pay respect. And we just don’t honor our teachers in this country. They make than less than garbage pick up guys. And it has to do with the feminine and the general degradation and discarding of the feminine. I have to share this insight that I had, because I’m just boiling over with it. And it’s not totally related to what we’re talking about. But I had one of my personal clients who’s into a rock show--oh you’ll appreciate this, Sarah--from a rock show, and she’s a rock journalist, and she’s young. She’s young. She has a body guard because she has a stalker, but somehow she got separated from her body guard, and she saw this guy that she dated for a week, like a year ago.


Sarah: A New York relationship.


Kelly: So she goes up to him and she says hello, and he goes, “Oh hey how are you, it’s so funny, ya know when we were dating what I fantasized about?” And she said, “what?” And he said, “stripping you naked, putting a plastic bag over your head, putting you in the closet and inviting my friends over to stare at you.” And she’s texting me this, right. And I’m having this heart attack in my apartment in New York, and she’s out in Colorado or something. I’m like, “Do you have your mace on you?” And she says, “Yes I have my mace.” And I don’t wanna say, “Go mace him.” Because I’m her coach, so I can’t get her arrested or whatever. So I’m thinking rapidly in my mind, because I find that kind of story literally makes me want to go postal. My anger and rage issues at patriarchy go off the charts. So I’m trying to stay calm, and I say, “You know, men are taught not to feel anything. As a result of that they try to control their feelings. And as a result of that, they seek to control that which moves them. That which makes them feel. Which is woman, and by the way is also music, dance, art, culture, poetry, right?” All the hallmarks of the goddess culture, of the matriarchy that prevailed for 35 thousand years prior to this little blip on the screen of honest to God, boil on humanity of the patriarchy, where prophet is the highest value. Which means that people aren’t.


Sarah: Well I wrote that quote of yours down that I thought was so amazing. You said, “men have been taught not to cry which means they’ve been taught not to feel. And when we don’t feel, nothing is too barbaric.” I love that. That’s a very beautiful way of breaking it down.


Kelly: Yeah. Yeah so our work as women in some way is, I wanna punch them in the face, too, girls. I’m angry, but that’s not gonna get us anywhere. So somehow we have to figure out how to mulch, as nature does, as our alma mater, the Earth, our true home, our true mother beneath us. We have the same abilities, and if you ask her she’ll teach you, how to be like her, and how to mulch shit into gold. That’s what she does. We put all this crap in the earth and she pulls out this new species of butterflies. She’s like, flipping the bird. Like what else are you gonna throw at me? You wretched species. I’m sure she doesn’t feel that way, but that’s how I feel.


Sarah: It feels unconditional but she’s very sick right now, she’s throwing up and having fevers and she’s angry. I’ve read about how you care for your body, and I would normally read your green juice and your filtered water and your meditation as that’s how a hippie lives. But I’ve actually had to live that way to survive. My eco-system has become as fragile as hers, as a woman aligned with the earth. I can’t poison it or I get immeasurably sick. And our bodies and the earth are one and it’s the same thing. I literally have to heal myself to keep doing the work to heal her.


Kelly: So let me just finish. So this gift that every woman has, whether she’s the president or whether she’s a homeless person, everyone of us is built just like nature. Each of us has the ability to take--we were talking about Chiron, the wounded healer--all of us has the ability to take our sorrow and our darkness and transform it into a gift that can uplift and enlarge people everywhere. Whether it’s in your immediate family or radiating out to the whole globe, or whatever. When I say to you that you can ask nature how to do that, you really can. You can go into a state of meditation and you can say, I’m here. I’ve been gone for so long, and you’ll start to cry, and it makes me want to cry now just to talk about it. I’ve been gone for so long, and I’m so sorry. I’m so sorry. So teach me. Be with me. Guide me. Inform me, let you come from me, speak to me, use me. Show me what to do. And it takes a different amount of time. People are like, how long does it take? Before she answers? And it’s like, well. First she sends you smoke signals. It’s like when you used to do mushrooms, or if you still do, if any of you listeners have had that experience of when you’re doing shrooms of the whole nature world is alive. And you look at a tree and you’re like, holy fuck that thing is breathing. And you can see it breathing. Then you’re like, it doesn’t have a personality necessarily in the way we think about it. So you can have that relationship to the world. Just because when we’re in our normal perceptual apparatus, stone cold sober, we don’t necessarily perceive that easily, some of us can with work and effort and dedication. But know that it’s there and the more that you reach out your hand to the first time I hugged a tree, I was embarrassed for both of us. To the tree I was like, I’m really sorry that I’m so lame and I’m such a city girl and I’m like awkwardly hugging you and I’m afraid of getting a bug on me.” But I kept doing it. And there’s this tree in my mother’s yard that for my whole life I’ve been like, I really wish that tree was just better. The angle’s wrong, it’s cut wrong, the leaves are ugly, it’s half dead, but it’s right in the middle of the whole thing so she can’t take it down. And I just never liked it. And when I went there two weekends ago, I sat there and I looked at the tree and I went over and apolgized. I asked if I could hug her, and I gave her this hug and we became like best friends. It sounds so wacky and weird, but people have relationships with their dogs, with their cats, their fish birds--that’s okay. But why not? The entire natural world, you could be in communion, in constant relationship like every other species is. From plants to mineral to rock to mammal except for us because we’re so in our heads because we don’t meditate. We’re getting to meditation!


Sarah: Yeah I’m like, we’re getting there!


Kelly: We don’t meditate because we’re in our heads because the patriarchy is like, we all must pay homage to the thought. My thoughts are the most are the most valuable, best, interesting part about me, and it’s just categorically not true. So by coming into relationship with your body by meditation, certain kinds of meditation, people are literally like, I can’t do this. I can’t sit here this still, and my mind is crazy when I shut my eyes, so I don’t think meditation is for me. So it takes them a long time to get over the hump, but once they learn what’s going on, then they can start to experience their body, and when that starts to happen, you start to experience the body of the goddess, which manifests reality. Goddess isn’t up on a cloud with a harp looking down on us, Goddess doesn’t rule the world, she is the world. She is everything we see, touch, taste, love, experience, hear. Every shape and sound is her. And the fact that you can hear her, in your ears are cells that have the ability to hear her. So you can be alone in your apartment and you can look at your wooden floor and be like, wait a minute--that’s patchi mama, that’s earth, that’s nature beneath my feet. And then you can even be in your apartment and feel things as being alive. I say all of this, because why would the fuck would you want to feel that everything is alive that sounds wack-a-doodle, but it’s because the reason why so much brutality is going down the world is that men have been taught not to heal, and therefore any act of barbarism is tolerable. Because we don’t even fucking know those people in Afghanistan, right? There’s no connection, and there’s no connection to the earth. It’s like, huh, the earth, that green thing out the window that we raise our glass to when we’re in Jamaica. We don’t have a connection.


Sarah: I feel like I’m at a Goddess stand-up night.


Kelly: If we’re not raising our glass to the sunset, then we’re in the back of a police car shooting black people. It’s like, people don’t notice.


Sarah: Well now we’re not laughing now.


Kelly: No. And people don’t notice because they don’t feel. The whole point with meditation, for me, is how to get people meditating because once they start to feel their bodies, they’ll start to go, holy shit! My body is so super cool. Any shape, size, color, whatever. It’s so cool when you start to really feel your liver and your kidney and your colon. You can go into meditation and really feel that stuff. And then you feel it for the world and the people around you because you start to understand how precious your incarnation is, what a magic act it is. It’s the most amazing thing. Then you start to realize, holy shit, everything’s amazing! I can’t even kill a bug now. I literally get a spider in my bed now and I’m like, dude, you’re welcome, but don’t bite me tonight. I just get back into bed because he’s so cool, I can’t do it. So, if everyone meditates and everyone gets connected, then everyone feels like family. ANd only the truly demented hurt their own family. And therefore, through meditation, war will cease. That’s my pitch.


Sarah: I love that pitch. We have a lot in common, Kelly. The only thing is that I still struggle with a resistance to meditation. What is that resistance? It’s so big and so many people have it. You study it, so tell me what that is.


Kelly: Well, do you know how many yoga teachers don’t meditate? Think about that. Do you know how many yoga teachers say they meditate, and don’t?


Sarah: Well, I don’t know but I call myself out on everything.


Kelly: Well you’re not a yoga teacher.


Sarah: Right! True.


Kelly: My coaching clients actually have to sign a contract that they will meditate. And I’m telling you girls, not that much happens until you do that. It takes about 40 days to create a new habit, a new neuropathway in your mind. And then it becomes natural, like brushing your teeth. You wouldn’t leave the house without brushing your teeth, and you wouldn’t leave the house without meditating. You just don’t feel normal. It becomes a normal part of your life, not something you have to wedge in. It’s not like oh, when I have my first coffee I’m gonna wedge in meditation. That’s in the beginning, when they’re like, I don’t have the time. And I’m like, oh is that right? So then I have them make ten minute diary of what they do during the day. Except for when they’re asleep. And then they look at it, and they’re like oh my god, I spend two hours on Facebook, and I spend this much time on Instagram, and this much time surfing. There is the time in the day. There are 24 hours in the day and everyone definitely has 30 minutes. I usually have to put the carrot in front of the student, because when you first sit down to meditate, it’s so bad. It’s so shitty, and not good at all. You’re like, oh my god, I had no idea. I mean, it sounds great, you’re like I’m gonna look pretty calm and spiritual and radiant. I’m gonna sit down and close my eyes and within a few minutes you’re climbing the walls. The content of your mind shocks you. And then they come to me and say, ya know I really can’t meditate because when I close my eyes, and try to think of nothing, my thoughts go crazy. My answer is, you’re just noticing what your mind is doing all the time. And then you realize, oh my god, you’re not thinking your thoughts, they’re thinking you. And you have no idea what you’re gonna think in the next minute or second. Then you’re like, who’s running the show here? I thought I was in charge? So for the beginning student, you have to say all of the things that will come with practice. All of the amazing gifts that come with learning how to meditate. In my experience, people would rather read a book about meditation for 40 minutes then sit for 10 minutes and actually do what the book says. But Sarah, with you, I can’t say specifically with get up in the morning and you’re tired and sometimes you don’t wanna face your day, and you’re like, meditating? What? That’s the last thing I wanna do. But the truth is that when you learn how to do it, it’s just the total game changer. And I think that’s why people avoid it and put it off and say, oh I’ll do that when I have everything else in order. Nothing is ever fucking in order. Don’t be waiting for the magical day when you have just the right space and time and just the right income and just the right husband and vacation time--it’s never gonna happen. This is life, a constant series of triumphs and tragedies, it’s a rollercoaster ride, and meditation doesn’t change that. So if you’re learning to meditate, it’s such a game changer that people avoid it because it’s a death of the ego. Not so much the Freudian ego, because that’s a headache, but the sense of being separate. The culture of division and separation and basically war, the thing we’ve all been raised with. It’s such a different way of experiencing yourself and the world that it’s scary to people, because they know that shit’s going down. The ego’s like no, you don’t wanna do that, don’t you wanna go get a double cappuccino instead? The ego is like, don’t do that. You remember, the Buddha went through the bodhi tree, right? He went through all of these different systems of spirituality trying to get enlightened and none worked. And he did everything for 20 years or something. And then he finally found a bodhi tree in India and he said, “I’m not getting up until, I’m not fucking getting up until I’m enlightened. And if I don’t, I’ll sit here until I die.” And while he’s sitting here, all of these demons are coming. They’re like, “Siddhartha! We’ll give you 80 virgins if you just stop sitting there. We’ll make you king of the world. We’ll make you live forever! Just stand up, you’re never gonna make it. It’s a joke, it’s such a waste of time!” But he sits and he perseveres, and he reaches enlightenment. So it’s the same for one of us. Each one of us has the same biology as Jesus or Siddhartha or St. Tereasa, we all share the same biology. Consciousness is chemical. Enlightenment is chemical. You can make it happen.


Sarah: I love all that because I think all of that--well, I’m slow at this, but this is where my thoughts are going, get up and get the frappuccino, stop trying, nothing’s gonna happen. That’s my resistance, exactly what you just talked about. I was gonna jump ship a little bit on to something else. Is that okay?


Kelly: Yeah of course.


Sarah: So you’ve been doing this a really long time, and you are someone that in my opinion, I can be like, that’s a firewalker right there. Andrew Harvey calls is the path of love, the path of fire, same thing. Love will eat you alive and spit you out, and I was wondering, being so in the public eye, you and share something in that we’re both very introverted and incredibly sensitive yet our work is public. So for me that can a struggle, a really hard struggle. Often I find that I’m still in a place where I disappoint people in real life. I’m just a human, just doing my thing! It’s a painful path. My question is, was there ever a time where you were like, I don’t wanna do this anymore. Can I get a lobotomy and move to a small town and just stop doing this. Have you had time on your path where you were like, this is too hard.


Kelly: Oh yeah, like this morning. Everyday kind of. Can we all just go buy a really cool villa in Tuscany and all just go live there and hang out and drink wine and walk the hills and never work again in this bullshit patriarchy? Can we go back to the barter system? Can we go back to when everyone is fed? And everyone is clothed and valued? I miss all that. So yeah, it’s really hard to be introverted and in the public eye and I can’t say that I have navigated it that well. Before the Jivamukti stuff, I wasn’t partying like a drug addict, I was partying because I could party. I could really seriously hold my own. Later I was told by doctors that I have this weird nervous system that acclimates really quickly to drugs. They would give me a sleeping pill and within two nights it doesn’t work. I can take five Ambien and I’m like, leading a lecture. I really did a lot of drugs and a lot of drinking, but I think though, that the reason why I was doing that, because as an introvert, I didn’t wanna be the life of the party party animal, it was because the level of attention I was getting, and the fame--and it’s not fame like the Rolling Stones, in the world of yoga I was pretty famous. I was so uncomfortable with it, and it happened inadvertently, I had never planned for that to happen. I didn’t know that I was gonna be on the cover of New York magazine, they didn’t tell me, people knew before me. The magazine was a surprise to me.


Sarah: Yeah, and Times Square billboards too!


Kelly: So it was a surprise to me, and I think I didn’t know how to meditate how uncomfortable I was.


Sarah: Of course.


Kelly: I would just be like, I have to be this person. And so I would get in front of the class, and people would be like crying if they didn’t get into class, it was crazy for a while. So you’d walk in like, I’m just this girl teaching yoga. And you walk in and everyone gets quiet and you stand up front and Jivamukti has this spotlight on you and on the teacher and the room is dark and it’s dramatic. I was uncomfortable with the whole thing. And with the world that we live in, to do what you and I do, Sarah, there has to be a degree of publically surroundment or else it doesn’t go anywhere. It just doesn’t. And it’s time for women everywhere to--and some people are doing it more quickly than others--but everyone is being called to step out of the shadows. Everyone is being called, the feminine is being called to heal. And everyone is so scared right now because everything is coming to a head. And all the women before us, and like, I’m doing an event at the Parish in the Hamptons on Friday night. And the Parish, it’s a huge museum. It’s gigantic. Brand new, gigantic and it’s the Hamptons. It’s wealthy white people.


Sarah: I was nervous for you about it.


Kelly: I have a slideshow that I’m doing, and I’ve never used keynote before, so I’m downloading keynote and I’m like how do I do this? It’s very nerve wracking. How I handle it now is, I’ve always known that the more you understand that you’re only there to serve, then more and more the fear goes away.


Sarah: Yes.


Kelly: The fear gets activated when the ego gets activated because the ego feels so separate from everyone. It takes almost an automatic position. So I’m thinking, oh my God, I’m gonna go in and it’s gonna be like, what if my sworn enemy is in the front row staring daggers at me? What if the whole room hates it? What if someone walks out or someone starts talking on their phone? But as soon as I start doing that it’s because I feel separate. The ego is like, this meager system, but if you’re sitting in a circle and everyone is going around and saying something about themselves, when it approaches you, you get more and more hot and flustered, and you’re trying to look cool and like you’re totally comfortable talking about my name in a group. But it’s scary. Then when it goes past you, you can feel, you feel differently. You’re like, ahh.


Sarah: Right.


Kelly: And then you think to yourself, if I had just been just like this, when I was saying my little piece, my name is Kelly and I’m from New York,  if I could have just been so chill like this, why couldn’t I? It’s what happens when we circle the wagons around ourselves, it becomes like a noose around our neck. It gets tighter and tighter and it strangles us, when we think it’s about us.


Sarah: Right.


Kelly: You can manipulate, it’s sort of artificial, but you can take yourself out of the equation. You can do that thing nature does, you learn how to mulch what you’re feeling in the moment into something that’s going to serve you. And there’s different ways you can do it. But you can be like, okay, this is the heavy energy I don’t want right now, and you can have your feet on the ground, and you can say to the earth, you can say I need help with this, I need to transmute this into usable energy for me. When you get good at it you can do it in a second. And then you’ll hear or feel her ascent, you’ll throw your energy down into the earth, and get it back really quickly, purified. And she’s also teaching you how to do it. And you’ll be able to do it more and more without necessarily calling in her support. You can literally transmute your fear into love, because that’s what it becomes. The bigger your fear, the bigger your anger, the more deeply you feel things, basically. The more you’re called hysterical, out of control, emotional, put a lid on it, you’re a crazy bitch--whatever you heard, that is inside of you--fear--being treated like that your whole life by the culture at large. But then take all of that woundedness and raging sorrow inside, and say, I’m gonna take this and I’m gonna transmute it, just like earth does, and I’m going to use my breath and my body and I’m going to transmute this. ANd you just do. And it’s the intention--that’s what’s so funny about these masculine lineages out of India, it’s all about the Guru, and there’s only one way to do it, and you have to get the answer right, and don’t fuck up the lineage. If you don’t get the answer right, they’re gonna say in 100 years that the book stopped at Kelly Morris--when she didn’t do her homework. So the pressure is on to answer everything right, but the funny thing is that when I got into shamanism,


Sarah: I was just gonna ask you--this sounds like shamanism.


Kelly: Right. The shamanism people were like what? The first time I went to shamanic school, I literally had my computer, I was the only one who had my laptop out, and I was like, madly typing down everything they said. And they were looking at me like, what are you doing? And I was like, I’m paying for this. I dunno what all these other jackasses are doing here, but I paid a lot of money for this and I’m gonna take notes, and I don’t know shit, so I’m gonna learn this. So anyway, needless to say, my computer erased everything--it’s really funny--because, the teaching was that the feminine’s like when you teach your kid how to cook, right? If you’re a cook. You teach them the basic principles of cooking. Like rosemary is nice with meat. This is good with this. You do the whole thing. But then you’re not like, and now you must cook like me. Forever. If you vary this recipe, even one inch, oh daughter of mine, to hell you will go. The masculine lineages are like that. The shamanic ones, are like no, no. When I was like, how do I do a fire ceremony? What direction do I face? What kind of wood should I use? Can I look at the wood while it’s burning? Can I leave the room? It was just on and on. The shamans were always like, woah. There are some basic principles and then what you do with it is your own. So you learn the basic principles of ritual, or of how to transmute, and because it’s only intention, and because we live in a quantum universe that responds to your every vibration, that you ever thought, it’s always giving you what you ask for. So if you worry a lot, the universe is going to give you exactly what you’re worried about. That’s the level you’re vibrating at, and that’s what you’re attracting.


Sarah: Right.


Kelly: So I teach my coaching clients--there’s a whole protocol to stop doing that--it takes about four week to stop your brain from going left into the basement where the rats are, where you’re lying in bed at two in the morning and you’re like, I’m going to end up homeless. I’m going to die old and alone. And you have all of these crazy thoughts, right? And in the dark of the night they’re so real, you believe that shit. You can feel it, it’s like you’re watching a scary movie. But you’ve forgotten it’s a movie. And that’s all it is, it’s a story in your head. So if you wanna attract something different, you have to fake yourself out and literally vibrate with the thing you’re trying to attract. So if it’s money...there’s a whole process. The first week you have to notice that you’re thinking. The second week is you stop what you’re thinking. The third week is who you wanna be like. Because you’re rewiring your brain to be somebody else, chemically. So you look at magazines, you look at books, you look at history, you look at women you admire and you want to emulate. Just like you did when you were a kid and you would watch a movie or read a book, I mean I got a lot of who I am from reading books. I didn't like any of the shitshow I saw around me. So I was like, I wanna turn my head like her from this book. Or I wanna tilt my hip this way. All this kind of stuff you learn from books. Oh shit what was I talking about?


Sarah: Well I said that it was terrifying that if you’re worried you’re gonna get exactly what you’re worried about.


Kelly: Oh yeah. So basically, the third week, you start to artificially implant those qualities inside of you. It’s a whole long thing you do through meditation. But you can say something you feel joy and confident about that you’re walking down the street. And for whatever reason, and maybe the planets are aligned just the right way, you feel like, uh! And you’re walking down the street and you’re just like, yeah! You know, I’m the shit, I have it going on, it doesn’t matter if you do or you don’t. It’s a feeling that you have inside of you. At that moment you take the quality that you’re trying to engender in yourself, so I’m wealthy! I’m wealthy and generous! You conflate the two. The good feeling you’re having for whatever reason, maybe you saw a good movie, maybe you saw a kid hugging another kid, or whatever, you feel happy and successful. And then you conflate those two things, the feeling and then this thought in your mind. Then you’re walking down the street like, I am wealthy. You have to feel it to attract it. When you’re broke, that’s a tall order. I don’t know what that feels like. I’ve been broke for so long. Know what I mean? So it takes a while. You’ve gotta figure it out, but you have to do it. Because the quantum physics is now telling us that basically you don’t get what you want. You get what you are. Does that make sense?


Sarah: Yes it does, just from what I’ve been studying as of late.


Kelly: It’s like, I want this! And I want this, and this and this. No, you get what you are. MEaning your vibration, so whatever you’re resonating with. And for like two years, it stopped about six months ago, but for about two years I was resonating with so much terror and fear that I couldn’t get out the door. And when you’re in a public position, no one can know. It’s like a house of cards. So you’re kind of like in this position of, I have to do my job and lead people and inspire people and help people but I’m also like, totally in the deepest well I’ve ever been in. But I thought, before I learned this stuff about the brain, that when we worry--and this is really important, I hope you girls are listening--when we worry, there’s a feeling of being responsible. Like I’m thinking about the worst things that can happen because that’s responsible. Right? So then we sit around and worry all the time. But worrying is praying for what you don’t want. But now we know about the brain and the quantum field, and it’s like, that’s the stupidest thing you can do, is worry. You attract the thing. I did it for two years. The more I fell down the hole, the more worried I became. Then the more I thought, down the hole. And it just kept doubling down on itself. So neuroscience behind it is that you literally have a two second moment when something happens, and then all of those neurochemicals that you’ve spent your whole life cultivating flooding down the same neural pathways, they say you have two seconds of free will. Before something happens and you’re just on automatic. Then the train has left the station and you’re pissed or sad or whatever. You have a two second window to be like, no, brain, you’re not in charge. I am. I’m deciding what’s happening and we’re not thinking like this anymore. We’re not. ANd you do whatever you have to do. I don’t care if you pour boiling water on your foot, make yourself stop thinking like that. Go clean the bathroom, go do something impossible like a handstand against the wall, do something that makes you stop thinking that. That’s the first step. You have to stop it. Or else it will never end.


Sarah: Kelly where does this passion for transformation of self and others come from in you? It’s rare that I talk to somebody so on fire in the way that you are and I love it. Where does it come from? Is that too vague of a question.


Kelly: No, no. I think that main thing for anyone to be happy is that they have to have a purpose. The purpose can be big or small, it doesn’t matter. But you have to have a reason, larger than yourself to get out bed in the morning. Because we don’t love ourselves enough to do shit. We just don’t.


Sarah: It’s true.


Kelly: But we love others--think of the mother, you can see it on YouTube, her baby is stuck under a Mac truck wheel, and she can go over to the truck in a flash and she can lift the truck up and move the baby. And people are like well what is that? She’s not strong enough to do that, how unusual, what is going on? They don’t know, but I can tell them. It’s that in that moment when she sees her baby trapped, and I know that every mother can understand this, who you are, yourself, your separate self, your sense of self vanishes because of the love you feel for your child. You would literally trade places before you would let that child be killed. You’re like, take me, take me Lord, spare him! The Waltons or something. But it’s like that. Love is what obliterates every wall. I don’t mean to sound like, oh, I’m so loving, but it really is--your heart starts to open, as you connect to your body, as you connect to nature, not just as a pretty thing you put on your table or something to climb, but as living, endowed with consciousness, all from Source, all returning to Source, just like us. Every leaf, every stone, every animal, stream and tree. So knowing that, you are entirely empowered. The love becomes that. So how I became a transformation specialist, for lack of a better word, is that I never liked my life as a child. We moved constantly. I was always the misfit. I never knew what was going on. We moved all the time. So I never had friends, I still to this day have a hard time with long term relationships because I didn’t have that growing up. I don’t know how to do it. I meet a girlfriend and then I’m literally calling her up and going what happens now? Do I go to her wedding in three months or do I not go? I don’t know what the etiquette around it. Because I didn’t grow up with it. So I was always disappearing into books because I wasn’t allowed to watch TV growing up, I mean, at all. So I was reading all the time as an introvert and I entered that world. And I saw that with your mind and imagination you could in a flash for the duration of the entire book become someone entirely new. Since I started to take who I was from books because I didn’t see that much around me that I wanted to emulate, not that anything was wrong anything around me, I just had different interests. I had spiritual interests. My parents were totally all about money. I was alone in my family, like a black sheep, I still am to this day. I just saw that I could transform myself and of course I got that from Jivamukti, to India, to Tibetan Buddhism, to Shamanism, ten dedicated years in each, and sometimes people look at me and they’re like, you said one thing ten years ago and now you’re saying something else? And I’m like, yo, I’m like the snake. I’m a woman. I change every day. Don't Hold me to anything. Don’t pin me down. Don’t hold my ankles bound to the ground. You don’t own me. I do whatever I want. And I think with my heart. And when you are in touch with your heart you know what is right and what is wrong. So I can smell the wind coming a mile away, I knew all of this stuff was going left with Jiva--it’s a long story--but I knew all of this stuff was going left and I didn’t wanna be a part of it. So that’s the other thing about meditation. After the frothy waters of your mind still, Sarah, you know, everyone’s in beta waves. Beta waves are paranoia, anxiety, irritability, anger, insecurity, all the stuff that everyone feels all the time. When you learn to meditate, the ones right below that are alpha waves. And those are the ones associated with relaxation, intuition, great ideas, creativity, connectivity, it doesn’t take that much Sarah. And then you can keep going lower and lower to Theta and Delta, till you’re totally still. But when you reach stillness in meditation, it’s not this boring, not just sitting here stiff as a rod, it sounds boring, but it’s not at all boring when you’re experiencing. Because you are literally stepping into, you have a whole window, you close your eyes and use the very very wee window of the breath and you follow it. Don’t do this at home because I’m not describing it perfectly but overtime you learn how to follow the breath and it’s like this hand that takes you all the way down into the innermost secret, sacred chamber of your own soul. That’s where God is, that’s where Goddess is, Buddha, whatever you wanna call it. That’s you totally sitting in Source, with Source, as Source. And it’s not like you’re God or something, you’re being held in this kind of hug by the universe. And you can only get there when the mind goes still. The mind doesn’t go still by saying, I’m not gonna think anymore. Cause that just makes you think more, right? You have to learn how to do it. But once the mind gets still, and it might only be still for five seconds, ten seconds, even for advanced meditators. That five to ten seconds because you’re so present, and because time is linear, meaning the way we experience time, like the second now, the second ahead of us, when you’re in timelessness, those ten seconds feel like forever. Because there’s no past and future, there’s no yesterday or tomorrow. You’re timeless. So you’re literally having an experience of the universe and your own place within it. And so many women are getting who they are from the scale, from the mirror, from the shit they get from their husbands or their boyfriends, from their bosses, culture, everything is telling you that everything about you is wrong. Everything about you is wrong! You better go buy something to fix it. And because women have been treated to look that way at ourselves, to take a male gaze, and to look at our own precious bodies with hatred in the morning, like I hate my ass, all that stuff we do to ourselves--we commodify our own body. We live in distance with our body. Ever since Eve was exiled from the garden, all of us have been living in exile from our bodies and from the earth itself. So now we are being called to come into the body. The word matter, matter itself, comes from latin mater which means mother. So actually, matter itself, what reality is made up of, its energy and matter, is the mother. It’s so beautiful. So when you connect to that and not to the mirror, or less to the mirror and not to the scale, and less to Anna Wintour and whatever her distastes are this week. Like 60 years ago it was Twiggy. Now it’s Kim Kardashian, oh god! Now I have to go get butt implants. You can’t keep up. You will always fail. As long as you’re failing, they’re taking 51% of the population to compete for any kind of serious jobs. Because who’s gonna run for president wondering if their ass is too big?


Sarah: You said that meditation does that for us. It is a voice unmediated by culture.


Kelly: What happens in meditation is that over time, you begin to identify with that. That becomes your identity, that becomes this is who I am. And then when you have that connection, that place inside of you, that empty hole that you’re filling with food, drugs, alcohol, men, dating strangers off Tinder, one night stands in the restaurant drunk, shopping, all of that is to fill this hole inside, this emptiness. But that hole can only be filled with whole, with a W. Nothing else can fill that hole. No man, we all know that, I mean, how many dudes do you have to date before we’re like, shit, you mean the white knight is really not coming? So you become your own white knight and you realize you don’t need one. It’s not that you don’t need one, you have a different mirror, you have a real mirror, you have the mirror of the Goddess. You step into that place every morning for 20 minutes and you know who you are. So the confidence I have comes partly from that, and also from--and I’m sure you have this and so does everyone on this call--but it’s this really profound love that comes out so aggressive people are like, you’re so intense, and I’m like, I feel like i have so much I wanna say because I love everyone so much. Not like, oh I love Sally, I don’t, I don’t like half of them. But I love so much. And the earth and nature and the people, whether I like them or not. I’m like oh my God we’re going to hell in a handbasket! Hold up everyone! We need to love again. You don’t feel, you don’t love. And if you don’t love then I don’t give a shit what happens to you. So get out of my way. It’s like no, it has to go all the way around the other way. And it’s starting to go around that way, which is so exciting.


Sarah: I was gonna say two things. One, and you don’t have to respond to this, but what I love about you and why I wish I had met you earlier is that for a long time I thought being spiritual did mean being a doormat. Did mean just being so sweet and letting people walk all over me. But you’ve taught me that fierce love, like Kali love, doesn't have to show up that way. Like Durga love, strong, grounding love. One of my favorite teachers said to me, love isn’t always nice. Actually it’s rarely nice. So I have to ask you this closing question, which is how is the feminine healing the world, and you said that you’re getting excited because you can see it happening. What’s changing and how can she change us?


Kelly: Well I think what’s happening is that, whether they call it the Divine Feminine or whether they call it witch, or they call it--it doesn’t really matter. Women are slowly starting to come to. To wake up. When your previous speaker whose name I’m forgetting right now--


Sarah: Harmony.


Kelly: Yeah, when she was talking about the Goddess cults and how they would sacrifice people, you have to realize that the sacrifice came as a great honor. It would happen in winter. And then spring, the harvest is when he rose. So it’s actually this really really beautiful thing. That’s where the Christian myth comes from.


Sarah: I knew you were gonna say something about that.


Kelly: I have to bitch about that. This is the story. So I think that, Sarah and I have talked about this before, that I sometimes don’t feel like women don’t totally get the import of it, but I’ll repeat is here because I think it’s so relevant. Darwinian studies have shown, time and again, that the only thing that neutralizes or mitigates male or masculine we could say because we’re all masculine now, and we’re all aggressive. The only thing that mitigates masculinity is female solidarity. That is the only thing that can disrupt the patriarchy, that is the only thing. So when the culture pits us against each other, which is does--women talk shit about each other, they gossip, they sleep with other women’s husbands or boyfriends or whatever we all do or have done--then they have you right where they want you. They don’t want us to join. They don’t want us to be friends. They don’t want us to trust each other. They don’t want us to hold hands in a circle. Because it spells the death of them. And on some primal, group, deep level, collective level, they know that. And that’s why the Second Commandment is no graven images--in one fell swoop, they disemboweled Goddess culture with the very rituals through which he expressed his devotion to Goddess. And then you see that today, right? There’s no dance, there’s no music, there’s no this. It’s all like, oh if we have money for that, we’ll do it. It’s irrelevant. But of course, because those are the very activities that bring you into communion. And communion is what makes war stop, and we can’t have that because of the military-industrial complex. CLicking right away. Lots of people are making lots of bank with that. So, they don’t want that. I just want to enjoin everyone on the phone, like really think about this. Think about the ways we sell each other out, the ways we betray each other, even if you have just cause, like that woman really was a bitch to you. You really have to find a way to share with the women in your community that trust of Darwinism. Girls, as long as we’re doing this, we’re fucked. Nothing’s gonna happen. That’s why Sarah, your idea about this is so beautiful. You brought together all of these powerful women and listeners. And you created that female solidarity that has the power to torpedo the patriarchy. In a small way, in a big way, we’ll see.


Sarah: Thank you Kelly. And not that I don’t have my own human struggles with women, but this is why my passion is to heal my stuff not only with men but with women. I know it’s madly important.


Kelly: It’s hard because if you grow up how all of us did, women can be your enemy. It takes big acts of courage, big acts of truth, to step out of that paradigm and go, ya know what? I’m not playing this game anymore. Cause the only person it’s hurting is me and my children. And as long as I do it, my sons are going to be sent to war. And I don’t want my sons to be sent to war, so I’m going to stop talking behind that girl’s back.


Sarah: Exactly. Kelly you are just a wealth, we could have gone on for hours, and I just want to thank you for everything you’ve offered tonight. I’m in awe and I learned so much and I’m so grateful. Thank you.


Kelly: You’re so sweet, Sarah. I love talking to you and I love working with you and I’m so honored to be a part of this. It’s been great. I know I talk really fast, and partly that’s because of the ADD because I’m so afraid that I’m gonna forget what I was talking about. But I also just have so much to say. So sorry if it comes out like blah.


Sarah: No you offered us so much. I think and talk the same way, and I just want to say thank you Kelly, you are wonderful and I’m blown away.


Kelly: Thanks so much.


Sarah: Okay I’ll talk to you soon I hope. Oh wait, wait, wait! Kelly! How can people work with you?


Kelly: I always forget that part too, it’s like, do we have to talk about that? You can reach me at No, I don’t know how to spell it and everytime I try to type it out I do it wrong. I work with men and women, it’s amazing how many men are ripe for these teachings and they’re sometimes easier to work with than women. They’re like your kids. You can just kind of tell them what to do and they’re like, okay. I work with men and women all over the world, mostly by phone if they’re not in New York, and if they’re in New York we meet in person. People seem to disclose things more readily over the phone. I don’t know if you’re like me, but if I go to a shrink’s office and I don’t like, say, the couch, I don’t think they can help me. It’s silly of course. I work with women on either a three month or six month basis, and all of that information is up on the site. I also do some shamanic work if you’re interested in that. I’m leading a retreat in Kripalu in May, this coming May, on the mother’s day weekend. So if any of you are interested in that, come! Come with your sister or your daughter or your mother or your girlfriend or come alone. Many people come alone and they’re terrified and I would be too, frankly. I think that’s it.


Sarah: Okay so they can get in touch with you through


Kelly: Yes.


Sarah: Thanks Kelly! And they can follow you on Instagram, you have a great Instagram feed: kellymorris2015. You can find it through my feed, but you can find it and it’s great. Okay Kelly thank you so much.


Kelly: Thank you all so much and thank you Sarah.


Sarah: Thank you have a wonderful night.


Kelly: Big love to everyone!